"Wings" Of Prey (PC). Watchout Oleg!

[Desode]

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

Thanks for the tip. I believe that the default of the sensitivity was maxed out every time I looked through that screen. The planes seemed to respond somewhat similar to IL-2 (from how much you yank the stick around), so what I reported was more of the differences in flight model rather than setup of the controls.


I have a 24" also (16:10) but compared to you I'm satisfied with it (TrackIR5 made the window into the world seem a lot 'larger' if you know what I mean). I do sit pretty damned close to it though, might have something to do with it (maybe 50-60cm?).

I own a CH Combat Stick (F16 clone from my 1996 onwards days) with a CH Throttle but they didn't work anymore due to pots and gameport connector. I flew tons of sims in my earliest days until late 90's, and after trying IL-2 I stopped flying apart from stints in OP Flashpoint and Armed Assault (how sad). This is mostly due to how hardcore IL-2 was and I did not have rudders, nor did I appreciate how important rudders would be. Was more noob than I realized This fall I gave WW2 online a go (again) and got myself a cheap Logitech "Extreme 3D Pro" and rigged my G25 pedals as rudders and the wheel itself like a (very realistic and EXTREMELY well functioning) elevator trim wheel, and the Saitek Quadrant as throttle, prop. pitch and flaps. Also got myself IL-2 1946 off of steam. Totally hooked again! So happy to have found my way back to my beloved flight sims. Ok ok, trying to stick to the topic of controllers Needed to explain where I am coming from, no Saitek and recent CH gear experience etc. Read tons of reviews and forums about them though. The G940 is a mixed bag. I now realize I have too much to say about it to fit it here, as it's not on-topic enough and I don't want to bother people who came here to read about Wings of Prey. I will say that the lack of Force Feedback as well as throttle lights support in Wings of Prey is a big letdown and a strong incentive for a G940 owner to fly something else.

Glad you enjoyed the post. I'm talkative and extremely analytical, love to evaluate and analyze everything. I did not bother structuring my post well though, could have been much shorter and easier to read. Time to go do a nice post for the G940, I'll post it in the G940 topic that already exists in this forum. I'll write it and post it before posting this post. Here we go: http://forum.1cpublishing.eu/showpos...2&postcount=17




It is not unthinkable that Wings of Prey will be more eyecatching and atmospheric graphically than Storm of War. I ran Wings of Prey in Dx9 mode and I'm just blown away by much of the graphics presented, though the artistic license taken in places does not belong to a hardcore sim experience.

The image comparison is interesting. I'm a hobby photographer since late 2002 and a freelancing illustrator (drawing/painting stuff on the computer for clients, mostly sci-fi stuff) so similar to Oleg Maddox I guess I have the background necessary to, uh, have an eye for detail? I am beginning to feel like I am presenting myself as some braggart narcissist. In the screenshot comparison:

Storm of War picture appears to be in full daylight, no clouds and no atmospheric effects, or if they exist, it's set to extremely long visibility (not talking about rendering distance in the engine, but how much humidity is in the air limiting how far one can see). The sun gives warm colors. The palette in the pic is not quite right, though Oleg has commented they know this and the work was not yet completed. The terrain is also a test, where they try different ways of doing things to see what works/looks/runs better, and the image itself is now half a years(?) old.

Wings of Prey picture: Looks like the demo mission. Lots of humid atmospheric effects. The general impression is that of a very overcast, humid English weather (that they really do get a lot there, if you are flying below the cloud cover). But no matter where you fly you still get that murky overcast effect even when the sun is not blocked by any clouds, blinding you and casting shadows and reflection on planes and the water. The colours look like one is looking through some green coloured sunglasses (which I used a few years ago). Most likely they took some artistic license (means to alter things from reality/authenticity to achieve a purpose) in order to convey typical English weather/environment. I think they successfully achieve this. But the unreal mix of bright sun and overcast murk coexisting at the same time, and the green coloured glasses makes it feel surreal, or unreal even. It looks like out of some movie production rather than reality. I would like to point out that the other map in the demo, battle of Berlin, seems to look much closer to reality while being hugely impressive in it's details and mood.

The only point I don't agree with is "unreal mix of bright sun ". I take it you don't fly in real life. The sun isn't bright enough in the game. If if was like real life you wouldn't want to play it or all we would hear is complaints from 90% of the games consumers.
I flew yesterday and with the snow on the ground and the glare off the snow every place, you almost couldn't see anything anywhere. Keep in mind to that these planes are single seaters and there is just glass over your head, so it is even worse then what I went through yesterday in my cessna skylane C-182L.
Desode

[MikkOwl]

Originally Posted by Desode

The only point I don't agree with is "unreal mix of bright sun ". I take it you don't fly in real life. The sun isn't bright enough in the game. If if was like real life you wouldn't want to play it or all we would hear is complaints from 90% of the games consumers.
I flew yesterday and with the snow on the ground and the glare off the snow every place, you almost couldn't see anything anywhere. Keep in mind to that these planes are single seaters and there is just glass over your head, so it is even worse then what I went through yesterday in my cessna skylane C-182L.
Desode

You misinterpreted; what I was saying was that in the game the palette and shading of the ground implies thick overcast, but at the same time it can be barely any clouds or mist cover at all and sun shining brightly - it cannot be both in reality. If it is somewhat clear weather and sunny, then one gets warm colors and sharp contrasts/shadows. If very overcast and misty murky, then things can look flat, soft, muted colors. But simultaneously?

The sun blinding effect in the game was pretty good btw, even looking in the general direction of the sun, the ground/sea was totally overexposed bright for several seconds before the virtual eyes adjusted and some details started coming through. I'm not sure IL-2 is strong enough however.

And no, not a pilot. Flew in a Cessna once in the late 80's as a kid, took a bunch of pictures, and then some airliners.

[Desode]

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

You misinterpreted; what I was saying was that in the game the palette and shading of the ground implies thick overcast, but at the same time it can be barely any clouds or mist cover at all and sun shining brightly - it cannot be both in reality. If it is somewhat clear weather and sunny, then one gets warm colors and sharp contrasts/shadows. If very overcast and misty murky, then things can look flat, soft, muted colors. But simultaneously?

The sun blinding effect in the game was pretty good btw, even looking in the general direction of the sun, the ground/sea was totally overexposed bright for several seconds before the virtual eyes adjusted and some details started coming through. I'm not sure IL-2 is strong enough however.

And no, not a pilot. Flew in a Cessna once in the late 80's as a kid, took a bunch of pictures, and then some airliners.

I got ya, thank heavens there are no sun spots. Imagine being in a vertical dogfight in WWII and climbing into the sun. You would be seeing sun spots like crazy ! Then on top of that your fighting for your life. It was no doubt a visual Hell for fighter pilots !

I have flown to New orleans for Mardi Gras a couple of times. The haze and humidity was visually interesting to fly in. Its like a Glaze in the air.

I must say though WOP and ROF give the two best feelings of actual flight out of any other sim, I have played. I can't put my finger on what exactly it is that does this for me, but I think its a combination of different things.
I'm really impressed with WOP's shadow system, Its very good in my opinion, maybe one of the best I have seen.

Here is some info on the Dagor game engine. This engine is doing somethings that have never been done in visual aspects, It may explain why the game looks different then any other flight sim. Check it out and read what all the engines abilitys are. I would say that in certain acpects the WOP Dev team is maybe pushing some of these effects to show off the new engine. I know I hope to see more sims made with Dagor, its a very smooth running engine.
http://www.gaijinent.com/projects/dagor.htm
Desode

[Desode]

Here is a couple of videos of real flights, one modern and one from WWII. I'm wondering what you guys think about how well they match to Wop.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIUpv...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0kmUwp1TKk

Now tell me which sims out there looks like this real footage the most ?
Wop or others ?

I'm just curious.

I'd say this footage is a example of what the Wop Dev's where watching & trying to match. The colors are just about a perfect match.
DESODE

[Skoshi Tiger]

I think you hit the point there that everyone is going on about. WOP is trying to simulate the look of 1940's gun and cini camera footage. If that was the intent of the developers they've hit the mark.

This is still not simulating the look of real life, no more than the modern re-coloured B/W WWII footage is life like.

Yes I have my private pilots licence, and even though it's been a while since I've got behind the controls of plane (about the time life caught up with me and I got kids!) the video's I've seen for WOP or even IL2 for that matter, do not match what I saw out the window of the pipers and cessna's I got my licence in.

But like anything, little step's forward and we will get there in the end. It will be a while till we get holo-decks to fly our flight sims in!

Cheers!

[MikkOwl]

I must say though WOP and ROF give the two best feelings of actual flight out of any other sim, I have played. I can't put my finger on what exactly it is that does this for me, but I think its a combination of different things. I'm really impressed with WOP's shadow system, Its very good in my opinion, maybe one of the best I have seen.

Flight sims are few and far between, so them having the latest goodies is a rare occurance. No doubt they set up the engine with a load of effects quite nicely for the most part. Since most of us never flew anything at home with graphics like this, it is no surprise we are so impressed. And let me see if the reasons you think it feels 'real' is the same as I do, especially compared to, for example, IL-2:

- Foremost, the graphical effects and details. The cockpit windows look more stained around the edges of the frames/pillars and there area more shaders at work. Long distance rendering with very well defined atmospheric effects, lots of planes visilbe at the same time, high rendering quality and decent speed doing it, shadows being cast by aircraft parts into the cockpit, higher quality textures of own plane when looking out from cockpit, neat reflective/bump mapping effects. In general, a lot of activity, the world is filled with things going on visibly and aurally.

- Specific immersive additions: The pilot being heard breathing in a strained way when pulling G's, the G-forces acting on the pilot's head being VERY well tweaked (even without headtracking - a real human head is dampened from G-forces and vibrations in a good way due to the neck and it's muscles, giving a bit of a delayed smoothed movement), all changes in field of view (FOV, zoom) take place smoothly without sudden jerky changes, the airframe and view really starts vibrating when going fast, as well as having high throttle setting (got this while trying to catch up with He-111 bombers, tried to shoot like that too, not easy).

- Perhaps the music for some. It's always there. I turned it off however.

Add it all together and for your eyes and ears, in many ways, it fools you better than the rest. At the same time, there are things which are not there correctly and these break the immersion (depending on the person). Each time I started that Battle of Berlin mission in the La-7, the first few seconds when it flows smoothly and I just look around (trackIR) it is a monumental sight, that things can look 'that good and convincing'.

Here is a couple of videos of real flights, one modern and one from WWII. which sims out there looks like this real footage the most ?
Wop or others ? I'd say this footage is a example of what the Wop Dev's where watching & trying to match. The colors are just about a perfect match.

The footage there is grainy or shot with a not so well set up camera, and neither are a good representation of how things look like in reality. For example, in the Stuka flight, the camera often adjusted its exposure to match the bright sky, and not the (far far darker) landscape, leading to the landscape looking much darker, even underexposed, compared to how it should be (on a side note, I was taken by how similar it looked to looking around with TrackIR, haha, headmounted cam or something). The WW2 era footage (which I have seen many times before ) is discolored and of poor quality.

Either way, I don't think any sim matches those clips much. The vibrations from engine and explosions certainly lend themselves more to Wings of Prey, while the colors of the stuka clip (pretty real, at least) are pretty similar to FSX (micorsoft combat simulator).

the video's I've seen for WOP or even IL2 for that matter, do not match what I saw out the window of the pipers and cessna's I got my licence in.

But like anything, little step's forward and we will get there in the end. It will be a while till we get holo-decks to fly our flight sims in!

How about microsoft Flight simulator + FSX?
Holo decks... I want. But then I'd move in there and not want to leave.

[Desode]

Well the first video is modern with a cam. It is the only Stuka replica flying today.
It was made built by Louis Langhurst, and a guy in maine has it now.


I wish I could take it up for a couple of hours ! It looks like good times

Been thinking about building a WWI replica, I have always wanted to do that since back when I was a kid ! ROF has brought that dream back full force.

I'm still thinking about starting some kind of contest with a leaderboard for WOP's SP. It is the hardest flight game I may have ever played on Sim with Limited F&A and no retrys. I'd really like to see someone beat the entire game like that ! More and more I don't think its possible. The timed missions are just brutal ! You got to be on it and some of them are at night and that is even harder. Thats one aspect of WOP I really like, but then I like really hard games. Yes I have FSX , but I personally think Xplane 9 has the most spot on FM of any modern Sim.



DESODE