New Saitek released

[mazex]

Originally Posted by Feuerfalke

It looked very nice on the first glance, but the stick is non-movable: It's force-sensitive.

But even with the F-16 designers noticed that pilots wanted moving sticks to have a feeling of what input they give to the controls, so I can't understand why you make a fixed stick for homeusers as a general design.

Thrustmaster is also releasing a new stick - it's a replique of the A-10 HOTAS. That's basically all info available, not even if it's designed after A-10A or A-10C, but it definitely sounds more promising than the X65f

I sure agree, the force sensing seems like a real weird descision. Sat in an F-16 (Block 52) once and the stick sure moved a bit unlike the early models with stiff sticks that where not too popular among the pilots... Why copy that misstake?

[Lucas_From_Hell]

Originally Posted by mazex

I sure agree, the force sensing seems like a real weird descision. Sat in an F-16 (Block 52) once and the stick sure moved a bit unlike the early models with stiff sticks that where not too popular among the pilots... Why copy that misstake?

Don't worry, when they launch the X65F Block 52, it will be fixed. So, if the F-16 was introduced in 78, and we are in 2009... Ok, so we should wait only 31 years. So, meanwhile, I'm going to study for the test to the Brazillian Air Force Academy. If anything change in these 31 years, send me a PM, but I think October 10th 2040 I'll be busy the whole day, but I'm pretty sure October 12th I'll check it

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by mazex

I sure agree, the force sensing seems like a real weird descision. Sat in an F-16 (Block 52) once and the stick sure moved a bit unlike the early models with stiff sticks that where not too popular among the pilots... Why copy that misstake?

I have no idea.

Saitek even made some surveys to find out what simulation fans were looking for - I honestly doubt the community demanded a force-sensitive stick in favour of e.g. a force-feedback stick.

Well, no matter why they copied the mistake, from the customers and simulation-fans point of view, I'm glad the simulation genre get's so much attention again, that all main joystick-manufacturers developed new HOTAS.
I hope CH will pull even - hopefully with a twin-throttle and some rotaries

[blottogg]

It's true that the first versions (Block 1, and maybe Block 5) of the F-16 had a side-stick that didn't move. I never flew them, but some of the pilot reports I read said that some guys were straining their forearms trying not to over-control. The solution General Dynamics introduced was to basically mount the stick in rubber bushings or washers, that allowed the stick to move a little bit (something I'd bet you could easily do to the X65 as well). The force tranducers were the same in both versions AFAIK, and provided full control input at 25 lb. of force. I was a little worried about adapting to the force sensing side-stick coming from the T-38, but after a couple of sims, my first flight was a non-event, at least from a flight control standpoint. The X65's twist rudder isn't something I'd like, but presumably you can lock it out and use pedals, like you can with the X52.

Saitek is braving new ground, at least for the brand-name manufacturers, but there are a couple of plusses. Without pots, there's nothing to wear out, and depending on what transducers they use and how they're calibrated, the X65 could be more accurate than the X52 with Hall sensors. "Modding" an X65 to move a bit like later Blocks of F-16 would (in theory at least) be a lot easier (and cheaper) than implementing the mod kits out there to convert the Cougar to a non-moving force-sensing stick. I know Viper_2005 has done this to his Cougar and likes it. FWIW, I think the X65 is based on the F-22 stick and throttle, and not on a unique layout like their earlier sticks.

The force-feedback Logitech G940 looks interesting, too. The F-16 didn't have any force-feedback obviously, and I never felt deprived for its lack. Then again, I had seat-of-the-pants feedback, and didn't have to worry about pre-stall buffet, either. Financially challenged as I am, I'm still using my X52 for as long as it holds out. It's good to see the manufacturers continuing to develop new products though.

Has anybody actually bought one of these things yet, or at least seen a review? I'd be curious to hear some hands-on reporting, especially since I doubt I'll be able to try one of these out at the local Best Buy anytime soon.

thers always something to brake in saitek sticks......

and to buy a 500 bucks HOTAS just to mess with serious MODS and to avoid warranty.....ohh

[=815=TooCooL]

For Falcon flyer, this is a good go but certainly no go for ww2 plane flyers.

Didn't know falcon4 fans are still that many for this kind of product to come out.

[Aviar]

I'm afraid the title of this thread is a little misleading. The X65F has not been released yet.

Aviar