Bf-109 G-10 worth unlocking?

[baldwin8]

I am not sure if this falls into the stupid question category, but which play level is everyone talking about here, arcade, realistic or simulator?

[MorgothNL]

Originally Posted by baldwin8

I am not sure if this falls into the stupid question category, but which play level is everyone talking about here, arcade, realistic or simulator?

yeah, should have mentioned that before

Im talking about sim mostly. Or realistic for that matter, because I dont notice difference in armament power, or airplane durability, between sim and realistic

[Soviet Ace]

Originally Posted by MorgothNL

Thought maybe the nosecannon 20mm was a heavier shell, or an 'exploding' one.
Hmz, so the cannons are equal,but the spit has 2 and fire faster
So ehm, maybe a stuppid question, but where does the 109 exel the spit in? (dont say speed because thats a tiny difference)

EDIT:
I just found this table http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaver...n/fgun-ta.html
More or less half way, there is the spit mk IX with the 4 x 7.7mm and 2x 20mm and exactly under the IX, there is the G-6. This G-6 is armed with a 20mm cannon and 2x 13mm.
So those 2 are have the same armament as the IX in game, and, lets say the 109 F-4 (the G-6 in game has gunpods).

If you look at the table, the weight of fire of the 109 is HIGHER. It is 2.46 kg per second, and the spit has 2.24 kg per second.
Looking at this, I would asume that the 109's armament should kill quicker than the spit's.

Do I just have a lot of bad luck with the 109/ luck with the spit? or is the armament of the 109 much weaker than the spits

Well there are some odd balled 20mm cannon rounds like 20x102mm 20x82mm(Which was the German caliber I believe used with their 20mm Mauser cannons?) But I think that most of them were the same weight, just a bit different in dimension?

EDIT: The 20x82mm was not the German cannon round. My mistake, but the Yak and La 20mm cannons were 20x99R the German Mauser was 20x135mm.

[Robotic Pope]

Originally Posted by MorgothNL

Well, I finaly have the G-10.. and it is a bummer . I'm starting to like the me109's, they are more fun to fly than the spit, because you need to do more than turning to win the battle.
I've been flying with the K-4 and F-4 mostly till I unlocked the G-10.

The G-10 flies ok, but its cannons leave a questionamark . Isnt the G-10 supposed to have a powerfull 30mm nosecannon? This one has the same armament as the F-4 and G-2. It turns worse, and is only slightly faster . I thought it would fly it bit nicer than the K-4, and had a 30mm.

the G-10 is crap no reason what so ever to pick this one over a F-4 or K-4/G-6.

Devs... could you plz give it a 30mm cannon
And while we are at it, maybe have a look at the 37mm????? yak-9T cannon (its not a 37mm, it feels like 3.7mm)
Or how about the K-4 without the gunpods.. the 30mm cannon and 2 machineguns are all I need, its a shame the gunpods are no choice, they ruin the manouvrebility of the K-4

Sorry for bringing up this old post, but I wanted to share my opinion on the G-10, now that I finally have it

MorgothNL, I believe the G-10 did have a 20mm cannon. But I think it was a new, lighter and faster firing cannon than the old 20mm. That was the whole point of the G-10. The G series of 109 had become so fat with guns to destroy bombers that it could no longer dogfight. The G-10 was designed to be much lighter so it could provide fighter cover for the G-6's and Fw190's that would take on the bombers. That is also why you would never see a G-10 with gondola cannons.

So in theory it should fly more like the 109F. Whether this id the case in BoP I don't know. I haven't unlocked the G-10 yet.

[Voyager]

Here is a better version of the table you are looking at:
http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/WW2guneffect.htm

The MG151/20 used the 20x82mm round, where as the HSII, HSV uses the 200x110m.

If I'm understanding the history of the guns right, The MG151/20 round was developed from a combination of the MG FF and MG151/15 round. The MG FF was an outgrowth of the small Oerlikon FF cannon. The HS.404, which developed in the HS MkII and MkV used by the British, was developed from the heavy Oerlikon FF S line of cannon.

Basically, between the wars Oerlikon developed the MG FF action, and made three sizes of gun with it, the Oerlikon FF, the FFL, and the FFS. The German MG151/20 fires rounds based off of the smallest of the set, while the British gun is based off of the biggest gun of the set. The US tried to adopt a belt fed version as, first the M1, then M2, and finally the M3, but it never worked very well until they reached the M24 version. The Japanese adopted the FF as the Type 99-1, and the FFL as the Type 99-2.

I think about the only group (aside from the US, and only because we couldn't get it to work) that wasn't using some variant Oerlikon, were the Russians, who were using the ShVAK, which was, perhaps, the first revolver cannon. It would be rather interesting to see just how closely the Mauser MG 213 happens to be related to the ShVAK mechanism.

Harry Voyager

[Mr Greezy]

I'm playing solely in sim mode and I do just fine in 109s. You just have to fly differently. If you zip down to the deck and start turning with Spits, Yaks, and La-7s you're going to get bested. That simple. Early-war, it's a bit different, but even then you're going to have to pull some fancy stuff to "out turn" a Spit.

BnZ is how to capitalize with the 109. I've been able to do pretty well with it. Sometimes I've got the most kills in a match, other times I'm pretty close, and with BnZ'ing, you've usually got a low death count compared to the other guys since you're hovering above, waiting to pounce. If you go down and you miss, you better not stick around for long. A lot of people get frustrated with this tactic, but that's mainly because they're just doing the booming part. They forget the zooming.

A lot of my "deaths" are getting caught in a series of respawn crashing or running out of ammo and then bailing (because you can't land and get more ammo).

I like the K-4 ever so slightly more than the G-6 for the purpose of BnZ. The G-6 is still awesome though and does the job just fine. It got me enough kills to get the K-4, obviously. Historically, the K-4 is the Luftwaffe's answer to having a bunch of different 109 models with a bunch of different parts coupled with waning resources -- consolidate the 109 models, make improvements, keep costs down. And make sure you keep a big ass cannon in the nose to shoot down huge American bombers.

The G-10? No big ass cannon. I'll unlock it, but I doubt I'll fly it that much. Me likey cannons.

[MorgothNL]

thnx for the replys and info guys

I will give the 109 series another shot, maybe today I will be more 'lucky' with the cannon.

@voyager: cool table , wich type of mg151 do the bf109 have? API / HET / HE(M)?

@mr greezy: I do just fine with the 109's as well, normally end up with most kills, or 2nd to most (depending on ancient seraph ). But when I used the 109's yesterday, it just took soooo many hits to down someone, were the spit only takes a 1 second well aimed burst.
(again,im not talking about the G-6 and K-4, those do kill quick)

I do not always use BnZ tactics, it depends on my opponents skill, and the type of their aircraft. Against other 109's, I turn. Against spit/la/yak I boom and zoom, and sometimes turn if they have target fixation on a target at their 12 oclock.

[Widar]

Originally Posted by MorgothNL

thnx for the replys and info guys

I will give the 109 series another shot, maybe today I will be more 'lucky' with the cannon.

@voyager: cool table , wich type of mg151 do the bf109 have? API / HET / HE(M)?

@mr greezy: I do just fine with the 109's as well, normally end up with most kills, or 2nd to most (depending on ancient seraph ). But when I used the 109's yesterday, it just took soooo many hits to down someone, were the spit only takes a 1 second well aimed burst.
(again,im not talking about the G-6 and K-4, those do kill quick)

I do not always use BnZ tactics, it depends on my opponents skill, and the type of their aircraft. Against other 109's, I turn. Against spit/la/yak I boom and zoom, and sometimes turn if they have target fixation on a target at their 12 oclock.

At the risk of flogging a dead horse...

Based on testing I would say the best manoeuvrable Me 109 performer in BOP (not in real life) is the F-4. With some training it can be flown at between 18/20 and 20/20 sensitivity. If you are a really good shot in BOP the F-4 is probably the best choice. When comparing the F-4 to the G-10 in BOP:

- The F-4 dives, turns and rolls faster than the G-10;
- The G-10 climbs faster and has a greater top speed than the F-4;
- Both have 1x20 mm MG 151/20 cannon, the G-10 however additionally has 2x13 mm MG 131 machine guns and the F-4 instead has 2x7.92 mm MG 17 machine guns, but all this makes no noticeable difference in BOP. The only Me 109's in BOP with a decent impact armament are the G-6 and the K-4.

In real life however the G-10 was generally better than the F-4 and had a 30 mm Mk 108 cannon instead of the 20 mm MG 151/20 cannon that it has in BOP. The Me 109 G-1 up till G-8 generally had the DB 605 A engine. The Me 109 G-10 had the DB 605 DM or DB (MW 50) engine. That engine was also one of the main improvements of the G-10. In BOP terms however I have to agree that the Me 109 G-10 is not really worth the unlock effort for BOP online duels. In my BOP 20-aircraft test data list on this forum I have also supplied comparative G-10 data vis-a-vis the 20 historical aircraft on that list. My last post in that test data thread also supplies historical data on the Me 109's, Spitfires and their historical armament in 1939-1941. Admittedly that post is not for someone with a 5-second attention span.

There are some clear errors in armament in BOP unfortunately, which explains the difficulty you mention in getting victories in the Me 109 and the ease of getting them in the Spitfire in BOP. Data sources clearly state, including the Messerschmitt foundation itself, that the later model G-10’s had the 30 mm Mk 108 cannon and some sources arguably state that later some G-10’s and K-4’s were supplied the even deadlier 30 mm Mk 103. The Fw 190’s in BOP are also missing 2x20 mm MG151/20 cannon, the 1940 Spitfire and Hurricane are, respectively, erroneously supplied with 2x20 mm cannon and 12x12.7 mm machine guns instead of with 8x7.7 mm machine guns and there are more examples of these kinds of errors in BOP.

So, to sum up the conclusions: the German and US (fighter) aircraft in BOP generally perform well below the performance of their true life counterparts in various performance categories. Many disadvantageous errors for mainly the German and US fighters are evident, at the same time many advantageous errors for the Soviet and British aircraft are evident. Many clear errors can be found in BOP concerning the German aircraft, regarding: flight performance, armament load out, armament performance, model availability date, manoeuvrability, durability, accuracy and hit probability. There are a lot of detailed first hand data sources on these subjects which underline these conclusions. Internet sources are generally suspect, notwithstanding that here is a site that has real life Me 109 test data:

http://www.kurfurst.org/index.html

On the real life Me 109's and Fw 190's armament load out: I saw a recent interview with the No. 7. German Fighter Ace Erich Rudorffer, who has 222 confirmed aerial victories (incl. 58 IL-2’s) from 1939 to 1945, while flying the Me 109, Fw 190 and Me 262 in western, southern and eastern Europe and in northern Africa. In it he mentions that these fighters were field equipped how a particular pilot wanted it for a particular mission. For missions he had either extra or fewer cannon, machine guns etc. installed depending on the theatre, area, mission and enemy opposition. In BOP unfortunately the players are not given that choice.

[ChankyChank]

The G10 is noticably faster than the other 109s and handles well but I never fly it because of it's armament. After being accustomed to K4s and G6s it was very hard for me to adapt to the G10. I usually fly the 109 solely for it's weapons. If you hit another fighter they are either going to die, or be severely damaged so that you can finish the kill. For me the G10 wouldn't have been worth the work if the 109 isn't a plane that I fly often.

[MorgothNL]

There we go , thats what I was thinking. But you back it up with facts .
Dont suppose we will see the armament power of the bf109 increased . too bad. It would really have made them enjoyable planes