Strafing ground attack AI, please have a look at it before final 4.09

[Arrow]

Rcently, I've found that there is probably a bug in ground attack AI, as many planes plough it to the ground by strafing with guns or rockets. When close to the ground, they will usually do some funny break turn left, after that they realise they are to close to the ground. Afterwards they try to pull out and smash into the ground. It affects heavier and faster planes like Tempest, P-47, Mosquito more than for example Il2 Sturmovik. I've tested many different conditions, different attack heights, speeds and waypoints, but haven't got good results. The problem is especially apparent when you order or AI orders to repeat the attack. I've had a mission where whole flight of mosquitos crashed into the ground in the process. Do you think that it is worth sending tracks and report this bug, or will we live till the end with this (I think serious) bug in a simulator that has a ground attack plane in its name.

[Ala13_Kokakolo]

IA's are stupid. There is no way of telling them to drop bombs, if they finish the ammo they leave in the middle of a combact flying level and slow, while landing your wingman acompanies you until it crash...

The bad news is 4.09 has been made by 3rd party so do not expect any other changes. No FM will be revisited, no FW cockpit change, no top speeds revisited, no 109E engines remodeled... nothing.

Sorry

[Arrow]

well, I know that there won't be any development and I didn't want to bash the sim - as it has some flaws, but also weaker areas. However, this strafing problem looks like a bug that wasn't present in previous incarnations and might corrected maybe by changing few parameters. So I am just asking someone who might know (crazyivan?) if it makes any sense to send bug report with tracks to 1c.

[fabianfred]

you might be interested to know that in another place....there are some who are experimenting with replacing the present AI with that from an earlier version....before 4.01 or something like that IIRC

There is No Way that oleg's team are going to endorse any of the mods....and i don't think anyone expects them to......but out of consideration for the genuine and enthusiastic work going on, yet still stymied by lack of knowledge and tools, perhaps a donation of tricks 'under the table' so to speak, would harm no-one, and re-double the already great advances which have been made.

[Golf Pro]

The trouble is generally most apparent with rockets, and the basic problem is that the AI try to fire too many rockets in one pass. They usually fire at least two pairs in one pass, and consequently run out of air.

The problem is less noticeable with Sturmo's because they only have two pairs to discharge. With planes with 6 or 8 rockets, they will try to fire them all in one go, and hence hit dirt, especially if there is uneven terrain in the vicinity.

Avengers are noticeably the worst. Expect to lose at least 50% of the flight in every rocket attack, regardless of flak/fighters. P-47's are also very vulnerable, but pretty much every rocket-armed plane suffers.

[nearmiss]

The AI is just so so in this sim.

You want to enjoy this sim... the best way is to join up with others and fly online.

Then all opponents and flight mates are real people. All the things that an AI should do are capably handled by real people.

I remember making a posting at the Zoo couple years back pointing out some of the lack of tactics by the AI.

Example:

In 1943 when the Russians began to gain the advantage over the Germans in Russia they were applying new tactical combat techniques. Pokriskin, hero of the Soviet Union, and an ACE pilot taught to Russian pilots to fly fighters in pairs at different altitude tiers. He would have his P40s take on the German Bombers at low altitude, then when the German fighters came in on the P40s a group/s of Soviet P-39 fighters would drop down from altitude on the Germans. All the while other Soviet fighers were above and descended incrementally into the mix. Using these tactics the Soviets became air dominant within a year.

In the IL2 you can set up the mission with P40s taking on the bombers, and have the fighters stacked in altitude tiers. THen when the AI are aware of the enemy aircraft everyone of them drops into the battle like flys to poop. You cannot simulate the tactics that were needed to defeat the Germans. So the only way for the Russian aircraft to win is make all the Soviet Aces and the Germans Rookies, etc. It doesen't make for much of a mission.

They didn't even like what I said, about IL2 being a Soviet sim and there was no real AI performance that would make the Soviet aircraft competent against the Germans when no tactics could be applied. LOL --- the mods deleted the thread.

If you want to fly Offline and enjoy competent AI performance there is only one air combat sim that will closely fit the requirements. The BOB II WOV with the 2.07 update will fill the bill, but you are stuck flying very few aircraft 1939-40 vintage.

Most of us that have been around for a while know the IL2 is what it is and anything we can milk out of it at this point is pretty well the sum of it.

[IceFire]

You can solve most of this using good mission design. The waypoints around the GATTACK point are critical as the AI is trying to do what its told. Although it does do some stupid things.

But then I would ask...are humans online so perfect either? If I were to fly out in a group of 8 and strafe targets with bombs and rockets. Usually one or two of those guys will crash in the process. Even when the group is a bunch of experienced pilots...although it does happen less. The AI seems to be about the same just looks more goofy doing it...actually I'm not sure about that

[Arrow]

Originally Posted by Golf Pro

The trouble is generally most apparent with rockets, and the basic problem is that the AI try to fire too many rockets in one pass. They usually fire at least two pairs in one pass, and consequently run out of air.

The problem is less noticeable with Sturmo's because they only have two pairs to discharge. With planes with 6 or 8 rockets, they will try to fire them all in one go, and hence hit dirt, especially if there is uneven terrain in the vicinity.

Avengers are noticeably the worst. Expect to lose at least 50% of the flight in every rocket attack, regardless of flak/fighters. P-47's are also very vulnerable, but pretty much every rocket-armed plane suffers.

Well, that is exactly the problem. Maybe it would be a simple change in the code to change number of rockets fired every attack, or at least height when they pull out from attack.

Icefire:
Good mission design can lessen the problem - I've found that having set the speed to 300 Kph or lower on GA waypoint helps a bit, but in repeated attack they use to auger in. I think it is just a bug and needs to be resolved in next patch regardless of any added content.

[Golf Pro]

I think reducing fuel also helps, in that I suspect it lessens the momentum of the dive. Also if you set it sufficiently low, it reduces the number of attack runs the AI will make before heading back to base.

[Arrow]

Originally Posted by Golf Pro

I think reducing fuel also helps, in that I suspect it lessens the momentum of the dive. Also if you set it sufficiently low, it reduces the number of attack runs the AI will make before heading back to base.

This is some good advice. I've done some further tests today and came to a conclussion that the real problem is that AI is switching from one target to another during a pass. If it makes straight pass, there is no problem...however when it is down lo, it fires two rockets on the first pass and afterwards tries to attack another target it wildly makes a break turn and after firing rocket crashes into the ground. It is most apparent on second or third pass.