To Oleg or Luthier: 4.09 / mods question

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by csThor

BC ... you've gone a long way to a mack cheerleader. Why is it so hard to understand that Oleg can't and won't give them his blessing? Not going to happen so bringing up the point is just

a) pointless
b) prone to bring up the old discussions again

I don't think anyone here really believes that the macks are going to go away if they only pray enough, but these "Oleg please incorporate ..." posts aren't exactly helpful to board peace, either. They're just pointless.
And, judging by the self-righteous attitude and the shoulder clapping I see in "The Dark Side Boards", I cannot help but agree with what proton45 said. There are enough folks over there who'd like to cultivate themselves a "Robin Hood" image and who consider Maddox Games part of the "evil big corporations" who dare to keep features from the "poor little flight simmer".

I doubt if Oleg would use any of them either.. but some of them IMO are worthy.. but thats just my opinion... which is just mine. As for Bob.. I really think that BoB will be so good that when it does come out even the folks who want to fly in other theaters will still buy it. I think the sim will be so revolutionary and just so plain old good that it will sell like hotcakes. I believe Oleg said that it would be partly moddable for off line use. I know it will be on my HD the day it is released.. as was FB, the AEP, PF,Pe-2, and 46..

I am just being a realist Thor... thats all.

AS for the attitude of many on the AAA boards.. well I have to totally agree with you there Thor... and I told them as much when one of their members started talking about how dead the UBI forums were.. which they aren't... and then the whole litany of "the UBI noobs" "If Oleg gave us BoB it would be done" etc etc came out. Truth be told for all the trash they talk many of the members are just leeches.. they take take take and don't even support the site... which is a shame really. My posts on the issue were removed.. but I do agree that ther is an elitist mentality over there.. and of the over 10000 members I bet less than 1/10 is supporting the site either with work as in mods or $$$ in doantions to keep it running.

[JG52Uther]

I doubt Oleg would ever use any of the mods developed from AAA for il2,and thats fine with me,as I want Oleg to concentrate on SoW.il2 is dead to Oleg.

BC I agree with you about the lack of the donations there.Some of the most vocal on the site are the ones who give nothing.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

I doubt Oleg would ever use any of the mods developed from AAA for il2,and thats fine with me,as I want Oleg to concentrate on SoW.il2 is dead to Oleg.

BC I agree with you about the lack of the donations there.Some of the most vocal on the site are the ones who give nothing.

Did you read where Oleg refering to SOW said, you want your Son to have along life. I don't think that Oleg views IL2 as dead, only views it as a child of his violated and mangled by some who are never happy, they always wanting more, and more

[Feathered_IV]

[proton45]

from BearCat:

I totally disagree with that. That statement is assuming the worse.. which the entire anti mod camp myself included at one time did. We assumed that because the sim was hacked that that spelled it's demise and we assumed that all the negative things about mods would be at the forefront and none of the positives... and yes... again... it was not official.. but if i said it once I have said it a thousand times... these mods are not going away ... and not only that... we were flat out wrong... the sky has not fallen in, the sim is not ruined... I am sure Olegs pocket is still getting fatter from 46... The current attitude is just as silly as not recognizing Israel's right to exist by some arab nations... IT EXISTS... and it isnt going anywhere.. and neither are these mods. The enhancements to the QMB, the new maps... that Italy Africa Greece map is a thing of beauty... To toally concentrate on the negatives of the whole issue.. and not the positives..... is naive IMO. Perhaps in 3 or 4 years or who knows 3 0r 4 months , widespread hacks will roam the virtual skies of 1946... and the sim will be ruined.. but it hasn't happened yet.. and frankly.... I will enjoy what I have..... all of it... and I have not taken any money out of Oleg's pocket... people talk about "stealing from the developer".. but I bought my sim... more times than many folks here......... It is a great sim.. still and it has been enhanced by these mods. That's a fact.... and it isn't because of any kind of psychobabble nonsense.. it is because some of those mods are just [really really good.... and we need to get past this.. and move on. Drink the kool aid.. or don't... but don't hate the pitcher.. because it ain't going away. I cant wait for BoB to come out.... I know it will be the best thing smoking.. but in the mean time I am going to enjoy all of 1946 that I can get.. and if another add ion on this engine were to come out.. I'd buy that too.... in the meantime. I am flying what is available to me now..... all of it that appeals to me..... as often as I can.

I feel ya Bearcat, but I don't think your reading what I'm really saying...your response doesn't address any of my concerns.


My point is that many of the mods are far from perfect, and Oleg would end up spending a great deal of time making sure that everything was up to standard (and running smooth). Many people (over at AAA) have problems with the game running smoothly after they installing mods... My point is that people are tolerant of these hick-ups because they are dealing with "hack-mods", if they where made official people would not tolerate "hick-ups in game performance"...

[Feuerfalke]

Originally Posted by proton45

I feel ay Bearcat, but I don't think your reading what I'm really saying...

My point is that many of the mods are far from perfect, and Oleg would end up spending a great deal of time making sure that everything was up to standard (and running smooth). Many people (over at AAA) have problems with the game running smoothly after they installing mods... My point is that people are tolerant of these hick-ups because they are dealing with "hack-mods", if they where made official people would not tolerate "hick-ups in game performance"...

That's exactly the point. As long as this has the charm of a rebellion against the mighty empire, people can even live with the holes in the cockpit when using 6DOF.
Now considering what fuss was made about the 1cm larger bar on the 190, imagine what happens when people who don't know anything about the charm of Luke vs Darth Oleg have to install that patch in order to play with other people. Or take the pictures of the clouds posted above. People would whine because these are the same clouds, just blown up to the point where the minor texture problems become a big mess on the outer rims. Not even daring to speak of the effects on casting shadows on the land below in the right size, too, or the effect when tuning clouds to other types.

[Revolter]

Originally Posted by leitmotiv

This reminds me of the ferocious arguments among boardgamers in the '70's about SPI (Simulations Publications International) boardgames and the Avalon Hill "classics." The Players of the hoary, old Avalon Hill games had a well-established play-by-mail system, player rating system, and convention competition system. These players of had played AH games for years, there was literally an established literature on their play like chess. They perceived the new, popular SPI games as completely toxic. The SPI games were seen to destroy the carefully established competition system which depended on the perpetuation of the use of the AH "classics." SPI players were seen as anarchists by the hard-core AH players. There were bitter debates. Before long everybody recognized the vast superiority of SPI games in terms of quality, realism, and presentation, and the arguments ceased. Nothing in this world stands still. Especially products for consumers. IL-2 is a game. it is not holy doctrine possessed of some intrinsic, immutable truth. It is just a toy.

Leitmotiv, I thank you most kindly for stating the obvious for all to try and understand. Time moves on. Hardware and software change for the better. Thanks also to Oleg and his staff for the past, present and forthcoming products.

A very dedicated fan and supporter of 1C.

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by proton45

I feel ya Bearcat, but I don't think your reading what I'm really saying...your response doesn't address any of my concerns.
My point is that many of the mods are far from perfect, and Oleg would end up spending a great deal of time making sure that everything was up to standard (and running smooth). Many people (over at AAA) have problems with the game running smoothly after they installing mods... My point is that people are tolerant of these hick-ups because they are dealing with "hack-mods", if they where made official people would not tolerate "hick-ups in game performance"...

I dunno..... For me thre things I have seen... I like... little things.. and IMO they are improvements to the sim. As I said... the tioned down nav lights.. the reduced dust... ther flyable AI pits are done nicely.. the 6DoF is done nicelyh.. there are not a lot of gaps and holes as we or I thought there would be. IMO from the mods that I have seen.. and those are the onmly ones I can comment on... they have made a great sim even more special. Far from mangling and violating it. I didn't have major issues with the original sounds.. but these new ones sound real good.. at least to me. I for one am not "tolerant" of of "hack mods" .. if it doesnt work well IMO then I don't want it on my HD.... and I dont think I am alone.. so far all the ones in that mod pack I got.. which was not the "official" one on AAA but one put together by another community member for his group, but all those mods only make the sim better.... look at those clouds up there.... look at that Italy Africa Greece map... and tell me that the sim is suffering.. or is violated because of that.. Of course it is all up to individuals.. as to what they want to do.... but after seeing that the online integrity of the sim has not been ruined as I and many others were afraid of.. and there aren't a lot of garbage mods out there that I have seen.. but I am sure they exist.... My needs are pretty simple... I think the sim is damn near perfect even in it's stock form... and like I told the guys over @ AAA , they were acting like they had invented something out of thin air.... Oleg made the platform that they are working on... and they need to be mindful of that and not slag him because without him none of this would be here.

[proton45]

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I dunno..... For me thre things I have seen... I like... little things.. and IMO they are improvements to the sim. As I said... the tioned down nav lights.. the reduced dust... ther flyable AI pits are done nicely.. the 6DoF is done nicelyh.. there are not a lot of gaps and holes as we or I thought there would be. IMO from the mods that I have seen.. and those are the onmly ones I can comment on... they have made a great sim even more special. Far from mangling and violating it. I didn't have major issues with the original sounds.. but these new ones sound real good.. at least to me. I for one am not "tolerant" of of "hack mods" .. if it doesnt work well IMO then I don't want it on my HD.... and I dont think I am alone.. so far all the ones in that mod pack I got.. which was not the "official" one on AAA but one put together by another community member for his group, but all those mods only make the sim better.... look at those clouds up there.... look at that Italy Africa Greece map... and tell me that the sim is suffering.. or is violated because of that.. Of course it is all up to individuals.. as to what they want to do.... but after seeing that the online integrity of the sim has not been ruined as I and many others were afraid of.. and there aren't a lot of garbage mods out there that I have seen.. but I am sure they exist.... My needs are pretty simple... I think the sim is damn near perfect even in it's stock form... and like I told the guys over @ AAA , they were acting like they had invented something out of thin air.... Oleg made the platform that they are working on... and they need to be mindful of that and not slag him because without him none of this would be here.

I like some of the stuff I see too...

But all the mods are available and people can add them to their hard drive if they want too...I just don't think that they have to be made into official updates. I think in the long run it would be creating far more work for Oleg and team then they need right now.

If Oleg started including "the mods" in the official up-dates their would be no end to the requests he would start getting. "Oleg could you fix this unrealistic thing?" or "Oleg could you fix the 50cal's?" or "Oleg, so and so says its easy to fix the DM so you have to fix it...", ect...

I want him to finish "BoB SoW"...

[LEXX]

Arrow::

I get that ... I've also spent lot of time with modding, SF/WoV, Silent hunter, Falcon 4.0 - but in the end it always ended in always some tweaking, something was not working right, performance issues, than again reading forums and looking for answers and which mod is incompatible with which. Anyone who wants to do it and has time for it - can do it. But the point I wanted to illustrate was that Il2 alone should be kept as a clean finetuned running sim, which it already is.

Yes, that's prove's my point -- using mods works for some, but not for others.

The modders can't technically do "better" than Oleg, especially with unsupported modding methods, but they create things Oleg never tried to, and so the modders are "better" at creating gaming content. Content creation is the general goal of independent 3rd Party modding.