More renders of SoW and Galba aircraft models.

[luthier]

Originally Posted by Tree_UK

So can you ask Oleg when we might see some updates other than 3d models, many thanks.

When they're ready

[DKoor]

[Tbag]

Thanks a lot for the info luthier, it's always good to hear something straight from the horses mouth. It prevents a lot of speculation as well. Great work with project Galba, I can't wait for more news.

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Originally Posted by luthier

Can't say anything about Oleg, and I don't know if any of you are wondering about me, but just read this thread to understand why I personally don't post on sim-related forums much anymore.

I'm actually in Moscow right now, in Oleg's house as of this moment to be exact. So this one is from both of us.

First of all. Regarding the console version of IL-2, let's get a few things straight. It was first unveiled weeks ago at a Russian trade show. The fact that you guys just found out about it today has nothing to do with the update. It's the fact that I'm in Moscow this week that prompted it.

Secondly, the console Il-2 has nothing to do with anything Storm of War. It is not done by anyone in Oleg's team. Il-2 source code was handed over to an external developer about a year ago, and they've been happily working on it on their own. It uses exactly 0 resources from Storm of War. Everything you see in that video was built by the guys in that other team. Oleg is not involved with it in any way. I'm really quite puzzled by some people's reaction and I'm a little at a loss for words, but what I'm trying to say basically is that it has absolutely no bearing on anything Storm of War related, and some of you guys amaze me.


Now, onto the update itself. Each plane shown there takes at least 6 full months of work to build. Some of the more complex planes can take 12 months plus (compared to an average of 1 month for an Il-2 model). Whoever said things like the whole update could be done in 3 weeks, ha! If you can build anything of that quality in 3 weeks, prove it, and Oleg promises you'll have a job the very next day, collecting the highest paycheck in his team, and playing BoB alpha in the afterhours as an added bonus. And I'll personally pay your moving expenses to Moscow from anywhere in the world.

I.e. jees louise you guys!

You are probably talking about the full plane, everything included. Damage model included? Lods included ? Research included ? Those things can't be deducted by average people from the update pics. I have a cinema pre-production company working for feature films, and we did high end / high polygon 3D models last year (streets in Beijing /cars/ characters to be exact ), and, as far as I can judge by the screens, my team could do the visible side of those planes posted in a matter of a couple of weeks / 1 month max (2-3 modellers) per 1 plane. Of course it's difficult to judge what's more to these planes thats not to be seen on those screenshots. I want to say hereby that I fully believe you, but the problem lies also within the information politics of 1C. Why you just don't say such things earlier, like what time it takes for you ? Why not give a little more in-deep explanation about whats taking the time and whats currently on the plate? I believe that is possible without giving away too much. The problem is, Luthier, that the fans live with unkept promises ("regular updates again" etc/ "release 2006"/ "relase 2007"/ "computer specs given mid 2008" etc etc etc) all too often and all too long, and that most dont know what you are cooking and cannot imagine the problems of high-game developping. Even a proffessional wouldnt know all the ropes of the flight sim genre, or what you are exactly planning. All I want to say is, the fault for the current situation on the forums is 50% 1C fault, no offense ment. It was just a huge bomb that everybody got hit by Birds of Prey out of the blue. Honestly, put yourself into the minds of the western fans for a second, and it's not so hard to understand.
I think what BoB REALLY needs is a website or a dev blog with some more regular info. It doesnt have to be Oleg doing it. That would calm a lot of people's minds. (and if its only to prove that BoB is not vaporware)

Best,

nausicaa

Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa

You are probably talking about the full plane, everything included. Damage model included? Lods included ? Research included ? Those things can't be deducted by average people from the update pics. I have a cinema pre-production company working for feature films, and we did high end / high polygon 3D models last year (streets in Beijing /cars/ characters to be exact ), and, as far as I can judge by the screens, my team could do the visible side of those planes posted in a matter of a couple of weeks / 1 month max (2-3 modellers). Of course it's difficult to judge what's more to these planes thats not to be seen on those screenshots. I want to say hereby that I fully believe you, but the problem lies also within the information politics of 1C. Why you just don't say such things earlier, like what time it takes for you ? Why not give a little more in-deep explanation about whats taking the time and whats currently on the plate? I believe that is possible without giving away too much. The problem is, Luthier, that the fans live with unkept promises ("regular updates again" etc/ "release 2006"/ "relase 2007"/ "computer specs given mid 2008" etc etc etc) all too often and all too long, and that most dont know what you are cooking and cannot imagine the problems of high-game developping. Even a proffessional wouldnt know all the ropes of the flight sim genre, or what you are exactly planning. All I want to say is, the fault for the current situation on the forums is 50% 1C fault, no offense ment. It was just a huge bomb that everybody got hit by Birds of Prey out of the blue. Honestly, put yourself into the minds of the western fans for a second, and it's not so hard to understand.
I think what BoB REALLY needs is a website or a dev blog with some more regular info. It doesnt have to be Oleg doing it. That would calm a lot of people's minds. (and if its only to prove that BoB is not vaporware)

Best,

nausicaa

Exactly +++++1

[proton45]

Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa

You are probably talking about the full plane, everything included. Damage model included? Lods included ? Research included ? Those things can't be deducted by average people from the update pics. I have a cinema pre-production company working for feature films, and we did high end / high polygon 3D models last year (streets in Beijing /cars/ characters to be exact ), and, as far as I can judge by the screens, my team could do the visible side of those planes posted in a matter of a couple of weeks / 1 month max (2-3 modellers) per 1 plane. Of course it's difficult to judge what's more to these planes thats not to be seen on those screenshots. I want to say hereby that I fully believe you, but the problem lies also within the information politics of 1C. Why you just don't say such things earlier, like what time it takes for you ? Why not give a little more in-deep explanation about whats taking the time and whats currently on the plate? I believe that is possible without giving away too much. The problem is, Luthier, that the fans live with unkept promises ("regular updates again" etc/ "release 2006"/ "relase 2007"/ "computer specs given mid 2008" etc etc etc) all too often and all too long, and that most dont know what you are cooking and cannot imagine the problems of high-game developping. Even a proffessional wouldnt know all the ropes of the flight sim genre, or what you are exactly planning. All I want to say is, the fault for the current situation on the forums is 50% 1C fault, no offense ment. It was just a huge bomb that everybody got hit by Birds of Prey out of the blue. Honestly, put yourself into the minds of the western fans for a second, and it's not so hard to understand.
I think what BoB REALLY needs is a website or a dev blog with some more regular info. It doesnt have to be Oleg doing it. That would calm a lot of people's minds. (and if its only to prove that BoB is not vaporware)

Best,

nausicaa

No disrespect to your well thought out comment, but their are a few people here that are NEVER happy with any information they ever get about anything...and they spend a fair amount of their time posting arguments here about why we should all be unhappy with the level of communication on updates...and why (in fact) "BoB SoW" will never come out (vapor ware). Its nice to think that their could be a reasonable solution to the current (silliness) situation, but I fear that nothing will appease the (small but vocal) group of unhappy posters. I'm a trusting sole by nature but their are times I question their motives...

[JG52Uther]

Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa

You are probably talking about the full plane, everything included. Damage model included? Lods included ? Research included ? Those things can't be deducted by average people from the update pics. I have a cinema pre-production company working for feature films, and we did high end / high polygon 3D models last year (streets in Beijing /cars/ characters to be exact ), and, as far as I can judge by the screens, my team could do the visible side of those planes posted in a matter of a couple of weeks / 1 month max (2-3 modellers) per 1 plane. Of course it's difficult to judge what's more to these planes thats not to be seen on those screenshots. I want to say hereby that I fully believe you, but the problem lies also within the information politics of 1C. Why you just don't say such things earlier, like what time it takes for you ? Why not give a little more in-deep explanation about whats taking the time and whats currently on the plate? I believe that is possible without giving away too much. The problem is, Luthier, that the fans live with unkept promises ("regular updates again" etc/ "release 2006"/ "relase 2007"/ "computer specs given mid 2008" etc etc etc) all too often and all too long, and that most dont know what you are cooking and cannot imagine the problems of high-game developping. Even a proffessional wouldnt know all the ropes of the flight sim genre, or what you are exactly planning. All I want to say is, the fault for the current situation on the forums is 50% 1C fault, no offense ment. It was just a huge bomb that everybody got hit by Birds of Prey out of the blue. Honestly, put yourself into the minds of the western fans for a second, and it's not so hard to understand.
I think what BoB REALLY needs is a website or a dev blog with some more regular info. It doesnt have to be Oleg doing it. That would calm a lot of people's minds. (and if its only to prove that BoB is not vaporware)

Best,

nausicaa

Exactly.Just by the reaction to this console game in the forums,and the need for Oleg and Ilya to appear here and try to explain things this weekend,it seems pretty obvious that there needs to be more regular updates,or at least some news on a more regular basis than currently.

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by luthier

As we get closer to release, Oleg promises to release more things more often, just as the case was eight years ago, as we were approaching the release of the original Il-2.

which is exactly what oleg said he would do some months ago. we were then given a few 3 weekly updates, and then nothing for almost 2.5 months

Evgeny, the official forum moderator here, was also dealing with questions and answers from Oleg on a regular basis for a few months, then again silence for the last 2.5 months and nothing similar from the new moderator that replaced him.

the forum section that deal with questions for oleg has also become a total chaos, and our new moderator seems to let it become a soup of confusion with many off topic posts (Evgeny used to remove off-topic posts from that thread, and then used selected questions from it in his Q&A with Oleg).

Originally Posted by luthier

I'm actually in Moscow right now, in Oleg's house as of this moment to be exact. So this one is from both of us.

good, then plz give us some real information and a more solid indication of the BoB progress !!

the most important missing info in the last year is about the complexity and detail of the new dynamic campaign engine, the metric resolution and detail in the terrain mesh, and some alpha/beta scenery screenshot to wet our appetite of the degree of immersion we can expect (yes we know textures will be the final part added, we dont expect the finished product yet). some sort of video clip to show aircraft flying in the new environment and to give an indication of 6DoF for the pilot movement in the cockpit would also help. the only new building we have seen in the last year is that of a single house in the screenshot with the moving grass (we love the grass, dont get me wrong there !). the german il2 fan with the uber models with the BoB trains (from the german ubi forum) had about 60 new objects created in high detail more then a year ago, since then we have seen very little of new houses, trucks or other new ground objects from olegs group.

have a look at some of the black shark recent development info, they provided much better info for their fan base and their screenshots/video updates address many concerns from fans.

Originally Posted by luthier

First of all. Regarding the console version of IL-2, let's get a few things straight. It was first unveiled weeks ago at a Russian trade show.

and Oleg and Co cant be bothered making a little 2 line post here to keep us informed ? bad management there, the flipout's occurring here when we hear about it 3e hand shouldnt come as a surprise then (including speculation that BoB is now vapor ware)

Originally Posted by luthier

The fact that you guys just found out about it today has nothing to do with the update. It's the fact that I'm in Moscow this week that prompted it.

in that case i hope you visit him more often. is Oleg really that short on staff that somebody cant post a few screenshots every 3 or 4 weeks as he promised to do when he say he would again keep us regularly updated ?

Originally Posted by luthier

Secondly, the console Il-2 has nothing to do with anything Storm of War.

sorry, but i dont believe you there. have a look at the video from it,
- the landscape shows the new BoB trees and hedges, they arnt il2 trees.
- the town and city layout of streets and houses is also exactly the same as was seen in the BoB beta video from about a year ago.
- you can even see the white cliffs of the south of england in the console demo !

Originally Posted by luthier

It is not done by anyone in Oleg's team. Il-2 source code was handed over to an external developer about a year ago, and they've been happily working on it on their own. It uses exactly 0 resources from Storm of War. Everything you see in that video was built by the guys in that other team. Oleg is not involved with it in any way.

if that is true, then the small company that is working on the console version has made more progress then what we have seen from Oleg in the last year.

remember that "the idle mind is the devils playground", if the long term Oleg and il2 fans are given almost no information in the last year to explain the delays, they will speculate on what is happening, and that is exactly what you see on the main il2 forums (which have become really quiete in the last months, so many people are drifting away)

if Olegs super secret BoB pc plans really cant be spoken about because he doesnt want info to leak out to his competitors, or he wants to see how many new features he can fit in before he has to release it because of commercial pressure, most of us here can understand that and support it. but then at least give us SOME regular information and a few screenshots on a regular basis like he said he would. during most of 2007 there was no information from oleg on BoB, earlier in 2008 oleg indicated in this new forum that he was starting to provide us again with regular updates, and then silence for 2.5 months and the sudden 2e hand information of an il2 console sim that looks very much like a version of BoB scenery and its new plane models. that is what causes concerns in the long term il2 fans.

Originally Posted by luthier

Now, onto the update itself. Each plane shown there takes at least 6 full months of work to build. Some of the more complex planes can take 12 months plus (compared to an average of 1 month for an Il-2 model).

not a valid justification because .....

Originally Posted by HenFre

Apparently the update is made up of planes which are not modeled by Maddox Games. This comes from a reliable source over at SimHQ and the source is SaQSoN (Vladimir Kochmarsky) He writes:"This update consists exclusively from RRG Studio's works. He-he" And as I understand RRG Studios are the ones responsible for the Korean fligthsim "Project Galba"

we'll just have to presume there that another spokes person for Oleg was correct, because SaQSoN (Vladimir Kochmarsky) just said there that ALL planes in oleg's last post are made by a 3e party. you cant both be right !

so the update we just had, and the pictures are nice indeed, still dont remove any of our concerns about BoB's release and it doesnt tell us why all the delays are still occuring, or what Olegs team is really spending all their time on,....
- is it the dynamic campaign ?
- is it the new scenery ?
- is it the integration with a ground war sim involving a 1e person shooter, tank sim, naval sim, maybe a wargame type control of military resources in the campaign mode ?
- maybe a multi platform game server environment ?

Originally Posted by KOM.Nausicaa

.....Why not give a little more in-deep explanation about whats taking the time and whats currently on the plate? I believe that is possible without giving away too much.

....The problem is, Luthier, that the fans live with unkept promises ("regular updates again" etc/ "release 2006"/ "relase 2007"/ "computer specs given mid 2008" etc etc etc) all too often and all too long, and that most dont know what you are cooking and cannot imagine the problems of high-game developping.

.... the fault for the current situation on the forums is 50% 1C fault, no offense ment. It was just a huge bomb that everybody got hit by Birds of Prey out of the blue. Honestly, put yourself into the minds of the western fans for a second, and it's not so hard to understand.

hear hear !!



luthier, you stated earlier that you know many of the posters here are long term il2 fans and are an older and more mature crowd, how about we start being treated as such and keep us better informed.

we can understand and tolerate delays if we know what is happening and have solid confirmation that BoB is still a work in progress is being worked on with Olegs full energy. failing that, dont be so surprised that the il2 supporter base become transformed into a teen whine fest !!

[Avimimus]

Lets forget the unpleasantness and focus on this:

Originally Posted by luthier

Now, onto the update itself. Each plane shown there takes at least 6 full months of work to build. Some of the more complex planes can take 12 months plus (compared to an average of 1 month for an Il-2 model). Whoever said things like the whole update could be done in 3 weeks, ha! If you can build anything of that quality in 3 weeks, prove it, and Oleg promises you'll have a job the very next day, collecting the highest paycheck in his team, and playing BoB alpha in the afterhours as an added bonus. And I'll personally pay your moving expenses to Moscow from anywhere in the world.

I.e. jees louise you guys!

imagine ...BoB alpha...

[DuxCorvan]

Originally Posted by Theshark888

Can't wait for Cant's, Caproni's, Fiat's, Macchi's, Breda's etc. etc!!!!!

You better can wait... a bit more.

Originally Posted by Avimimus

imagine ...BoB alpha...

I imagined it would be beta by now, but at least it's been worked on. Alpha after 5 years, it must be either a very bad managed project or a very groundbreaking and extraordinary one... Hope is the second.