4.11 - AI debugging

[MadCat242]

Hello gentlemen,
I have been a forum lurker for quite some time now but now I want to help improve that fantastic patch.

I experienced an odd ai behaviour:
QMB 2 bf109 against 4 ai novice il-4. Crimea map.
- 1st pass head-on: damaged no.4. (lost one of his engines -> crew bailed)
- 2nd attack from 6 o clock : I hit the wingleader. Several hits on one wing, damaged his tailplane, smoking engine -> bomber rolls over, going into a steep dive, slowly recovers (guess due to increased speed) and crew bails.
-> entire AI flight (no. 2 and 3) flipped over as well and followed their leader...
The moment No1 started bailing the other 2 went back to level flight and headed north.

Is that on purpose? Did the ai "thought" their leader is leading them into that dive? Blindly following orders? Or did the ai just didn't switch to "hes going down, no need to follow. No.2 is the new boss"?

PS: I installed that hotfix aswell

[Jumoschwanz]

Originally Posted by MadCat242

Hello gentlemen,
Is that on purpose? Did the ai "thought" their leader is leading them into that dive? Blindly following orders? Or did the ai just didn't switch to "hes going down, no need to follow. No.2 is the new boss"?PS: I installed that hotfix aswell

There was the example in Erich Hartmann's book where an entire flight of IL2s with heavy bomb loads followed their squadron leaders bad maneuver and they all hit the ground.

I have often thought that any fantastic thing we have ever seen happen in this sim probably happened in WWII at least once also!

[FC99]

Originally Posted by ZaltysZ

Pe-8 in question lacks the rudder, however I still think it is just showing off, because it eventually returns to level flight and continues its flight nicely. Shouldn't AI be more conservative with maneuvers in such heavies?

He is just trying to stabilize his plane, this is not a designed maneuver.

Originally Posted by Juri_JS

All aircraft types with air-to-ground rockets are affected by the late pull up issue during ship attacks and also all large caliber aircraft that are able to do strafing attacks on ships.

I have something ready for 4.11.1, thanks for reporting the problem and helping with missions.

Originally Posted by slm

From what I've read, when their plane got hit so there was serious damage pilots often knew it soon and announced it to other pilots **long before using parachute**. Of course the pilot doesn't always know how far his plane can continue flying, but I think it would be great if this "unable to continue mission" could be simulated at least in some cases. Especially when bombers are flying in formation towards target and the lead plane is hit and thus cannot keep planned speed/altitude anymore.

We have this in mind but what is easy for human is not necessarily the same for AI. That's what is "hard", what info to provide to AI and make him react correctly. Don't worry, we will do something about it.

Originally Posted by Fall_Pink?

Various things

- I'll do something about jets.
- RTB command will send your flight home,you will continue to fly further. If you want everybody,including you,to go home use "Next Waypoint" command until only one is left, that should send everybody home.(Just a guess about this one, try it )

- Wingmans too low during attack, IIRC I made new formation just for that case, I'll have to check if somebody changed it or it is not applied to fighters too. ( I had dive bombers in mind while doing it)

I'm not offended by bug reports and reasonable complaints, this actually helps. Trolling is what is evil and I would never accuse you that.

Originally Posted by Bearcat

I like most of the AI improvements .. but one thing that still sticks in my craw is the fact that AI will still keep flying after getting flamed. I can see if it is an engine fire and the plane goes into a dive .. but a wing fire .. the pilot should bail... or crash ... or bail and then crash .. but he definitely should not continue flying and even shooting..

There is a part of the code which should deal with this, I'll check if something is wrong there.

FC

[Bearcat]

Originally Posted by FC99

There is a part of the code which should deal with this, I'll check if something is wrong there.

FC

Here is a short video ..

[Juri_JS]

Originally Posted by FC99

I have something ready for 4.11.1, thanks for reporting the problem and helping with missions.

Thank you for your efforts FC99.
Can you tell me if there is any news on the Mosquito ship attack issue? I am asking because it seriously hampers one of my campaign projects.

[Letum]

I have a mission with some P-38s tank busting.
They are set to GAttack some tanks that are set as the target at the waypoint.

The P38s approach the tanks at 2.5k and drop their bombs as if they where heavy bombers. Is this normal? I don't remember this behaviour pre-patch.

[MOG_Hammer]

Originally Posted by ZaltysZ

Pe-8 in question lacks the rudder, however I still think it is just showing off, because it eventually returns to level flight and continues its flight nicely. Shouldn't AI be more conservative with maneuvers in such heavies?

It is not showing off, it is rolling on its side to defend itself against YOU, the german aircraft offender. Having no rudder does not impede you to successfuly roll your plane. Why the AI would be more conservative than any human pilot? This is actually bringing you more human like attitude from the AI.

[Fall_Pink?]

1st AI bug/request:

- is it perhaps possible for AI to 'recognize' and act differently when they meet heavily defended enemy ground objects while on route? When they fly to a ground attack target they fly sometimes over heavily defended air bases (which are not their target) like nothing's happening at all. Some random behavior would also be nice, perhaps depending on skill level of flight leader.

I know, it sounds like asking too much, but I would love to see some smart AI behavior here like e.g. flying nap of the earth, temporarily taking a different course or increasing altitude. Now a lot depends on the mission designer, but he/she can only preprare so much and the problem is still there if dynamic campaign missions are used.

2nd AI request:

is it possible ground attack planes (or medium bombers like A20) never fly up hill after they've attacked? I can imagine a preferred ground attack pattern will have to be calculated that AI can use. E.g. a small village surrounded by hills can sometimes only be attacked in two ways. North to south and vice versa. It would be great if AI could calculate optimal attack patterns by themselves (within certain limits) if the mission designer or dgen messed things up.

Rgs,
FP

[Alien]

I've also noticed that AI's accuracy is way too good, it counts deflection angle just like a computer, no human has ability to make such crackshots almost head-on and with 500 knots of passing speed. That's impossible. And even a rookie level pilot can do such things. IMO, you should limit their accuracy a bit, because that's unrealistic and only 50+ kills aces have enough shooting experience to shoot in this way.

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Alien

I've also noticed that AI's accuracy is way too good, it counts deflection angle just like a computer, no human has ability to make such crackshots almost head-on and with 500 knots of passing speed. That's impossible. And even a rookie level pilot can do such things. IMO, you should limit their accuracy a bit, because that's unrealistic and only 50+ kills aces have enough shooting experience to shoot in this way.

We have spent ~3 months in tweaking AI shooting ability. I collected plenty of data and current AI shooting percentage is below best human players. Aces AI are somewhere at the very good players level.