Bf109E-3

[unreasonable]

That is interesting - assuming your flying was accurate the climb is linear as opposed to showing the drop off shown in the manual data - suggests something missing from the CEM model/FM, air density?

That is apart from the difference of the slope...

[III/JG11_Simmox]

yea,sadly the 109s an absolute pig at the moment
hasnt a snowballs chance in hell against the spit II.multiplayer.

the spits II were running rings around me ,even when i had the advantage,so,a little depressed at my pathetic skills,i took a spit II up for a spin

needless to say,it was obvious why i was struggling against them
the energy they can retain is excellent
took on 2 109s and a G50 together at low alt and was in no danger of being shot down,the energy advantage made it just so much of an advantage,to get stuck in and just turn and burn
fast on the deck and climb well,the only place i was struggling against the 109,was at 5k,where the 109 should be better,even then i reckon i was gaining,but,hard to say.

so in short,im quiting the fatherland,and mother england,here i come

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by III/JG11_Simmox

so in short,im quiting the fatherland,and mother england,here i come

[Winger]

Originally Posted by Kurfürst

I did some testing with the E-3 today for speed at 0 and 5 km rated altitudes, and climb between 0 and 6000 meter.

Refer below to my findings, compared graphically to the actual Bf 109E Specification sheets of 1939, found here: http://www.kurfurst.org/Performance_...chreibung.html



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I realized the lack of performance in the 109 too. 1c REALLY has to do something to fix that "unintentional mismodeling" in FM

Winger

[robtek]

I've tried today to reach the max. service altitude of 11.000m.

In short: NO WAY!

The engine is sputtering and quitting at 7.400m, Oil-temp fluctuating from 0 to 120 degree, water temp and fuel level also fluctuating without appearant reason.

Free-flight over France - Map. Full CEM on.

Same with the Bf110, altough only 7000m max.
Same fluctuations.

It seems that the engines are not modelled correctly.
Though, the spit II has a max. ceiling of 18.000ft -> ca. 5.500m.

Maybe the problem is in the atmosphere-modeling, but then again, according to some posters in this forum the spit does reach max speed.

[Kurfürst]

Could be a problem with auto-mixture, as some posters suspect, I can see some black puffs coming out from the exhausts periodically..

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by unreasonable

That is interesting - assuming your flying was accurate the climb is linear as opposed to showing the drop off shown in the manual data - suggests something missing from the CEM model/FM, air density?

That is apart from the difference of the slope...

I've noticed the same. VSI readings during the climb were pretty constant, given the DB power curve and historical 109 climb curves, I'd expect climb to rise up to ca. 2000m, then decrease slowly up to the rated altitude, and drop off much quicker (engine is running out of umph, and the air is thinner too). The Il-2 manual's graph suggests the same..

Instead, its just like in Il-2, climb rate does not change much, if at all straight up from SL to rated altitude, then its dropping off... frankly I am disappointed quite a bit. Stalls don't show much improvement, CEM so-so (ie. rpm-boost limitations and detonation still not present), individual control characteristics and harmony for planes non-existant... they all feel the same. And I've found it impossible to break structure with even the silliest manouvres. Overspeeding kills it, but that's all...

[JZG_Con]

Originally Posted by ICDP

The Spitfire Mk IIa is modelled quite well for a +12 lbs boost version (even thought he boost shows as +8 lbs). Unfortunately the 109 is about 30-60 kph too slow at all altitudes.

That would explain why your 109 lost so much energy, it simply has too little power.

oh .no not again , well the new patched worked wonders for me , but ive def lost some speed ..energy ..bf 109.

I have rarely flown the 109 up to now but on some forums the rumor rans that the mixture ratio of the 109 is messed up and only has 0 or 100%. Could this be the reason why the performance is lacking? I could imagine that optimising the mixture also might be a factor for engine power ...

I am just guessing ...

[Hunin]

Unfortunatly I don't have time to dig my teeth into this right now but here is the relevant ingame data.

Quick first impressions:

1. Cl max seems too low for both retracted and fully extended flaps.
Should be 1.4 and 1.9 according to british testing, 1.3 and 1.62 ingame atm.

2. Turn time of 25 seconds corresponds with british testing but is significantly higher then the 18. something stated in the official Baubeschreibung.

3. 460 km/h on the deck corresponds with both german testing of Wrk.Nr. 1792
and swiss testing. The Baubeschreibung on the other hand gives 500 km/h.
Any ideas where that difference might come from Kurfy?

Anyway here are the cold hard facts:

;
; Messerschmitt Bf. 109 E-3 Flightmodel
;

;
[Aircraft]
;

Wingspan 9.867 m
Length 8.738 m

;
[Systems]
;

Propulsion Engine Daimler-Benz DB601A Propellor VDM Generic
Hydraulics Source Engine0 Pressure 100 bar Reservoir 8.5 pt
Electrics Source Engine0 Voltage 25.1 V BatteryCapacity 54 Ah GeneratorOutput 650 sW at 2000 RPM

LandingFlaps Mechanical Extends 25 sec
Undercarriage Retractable Hydraulic Extends 5.0 sec Folds Outwards OperatesThrough 320 kmh EmergencySystem PneumaticDischarge SafetyLock Nil SpringsStiffness Main 0.6 Tail 0.6 MaxDragEquivalentS 0.7 m2
WheelBrakes Hydraulic Efficiency 1.5
Fenster Mechanical Opens 0.5 sec
PitotHeater Electrical
LeadingEdgeSlats Mechanical Automatic Move 0.1 sec ResponseRange 15.0 to 15.01 deg

Hatch0 Mechanical Motion Type SwingingForward Time 2.0 sec Jettison Type Detachable Time 0.2 sec
Hatch1 Mechanical Motion Type Nil Time 0.0 sec Jettison Type Detachable Time 0.2 sec

;
[Controls]
;

Aileron Slider Threshold 340 kmh
Elevator Slider Threshold 400 kmh
Rudder Slider Threshold 400 kmh

AileronTrim Nil Default 0.017
ElevatorTrim Slider Range -0.5 to 0.5 Default 0.25
RudderTrim Nil Default 0.06

EngineThrottle Slider
EnginePitch Slider
EngineMagneto Switch M0 M1 M2 M12
EngineRadiator Rocker
EngineOilRadiator Slider
EngineMix Toggle
EngineWEP PushButton
EngineMix Toggle

LandingFlaps Rocker
Undercarriage Switch Up Neutral Down
UndercarriageEmergency ExpendableSwitch Close Open
WheelBrakes Slider
Fenster Toggle
AltimeterPinion Rocker Range 795 to 1040 Default 1000 mbar
Puppet0PriPitLight Slider
Puppet0SightLight Slider
NavSecFrequency Rocker
Timer0 CyclicSwitch
AcemakerSight Dimmer Toggle
TankSelector0 Toggle Off On Parked 0 Cruise 1 Selection 0 Flow FuelTank 1 to FuelTank 0 at 1 kg per second Selection 1 Flow FuelTank 1 to FuelTank 0 at 1 kg per second + FuelTank 0 to Engine 0
HydraulicsHandPump PushButton
PitotHeater Toggle
Timer0 CyclicSwitch

Puppet0Hatch Toggle Close Open Selection 0 Closes Hatch 0 Selection 1 Opens Hatch 0
Puppet0Jettison ExpendableSwitch Off On Selection 1 Sheds Hatch 0 Hatch 1

;
[Instruments]
;

EngineFuelPress Hydraulic Range 0 to 2 kgcm2
EngineOilPress Hydraulic Range 0 to 10 kgcm2
EngineOilTemp Electrical Range 0 to 120 C
EngineWaterTemp Electrical Range 0 to 120 C
EngineManifoldPress Mechanical Range 0.6 to 1.8 bar
EngineRPM Electrical Range 600 to 3600 RPM
EnginePropPitch Mechanical Range 0 to 12 hour
Speedometer Mechanical Range 0 to 800 kmh Pitot Kollsman
Altimeter Mechanical Dimension m
MagneticCompass Mechanical JamAngle 90.0 deg
SlipIndicator Mechanical Amplitude 12.0 deg
TurnIndicator Mechanical Source Primary NominalTurnTime 2 min
FuelReserve Electrical Range 0 to 400 litre
ArtificialHorizon Mechanical Source Primary Pitch Range -45 to 45 deg Roll Range -181 to 181 deg

GyroFeed Primary Electrical Secondary Nil

;
[Mass]
;

Empty 2060 kg
TakeOff 2600 kg
Fuel 300 kg
FuelTanks Aluminum 100 kg Aluminum 200 kg
FuelFillingOrder Tank 0 Tank 1

;
[Squares]
;

Wing 16.4 m2
Aileron 1.1 m2
Flap 2.0 m2
Stabilizer 1.90 m2
Elevator 1.20 m2
Keel 1.00 m2
Rudder 1.10 m2

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[Arm]
;

Aileron 2.03 m
Flap 2.04 m
Stabilizer 5.15 m
Keel 5.18 m
Elevator 5.35 m
Rudder 5.45 m
Wing_In 1.25 m
Wing_Mid 2.50 m
Wing_Out 4.10 m
GCenter 0.05 m
GCenterZ 0.00 m
GC_AOA_Shift 0.45 m
GC_Flaps_Shift 0.20 m
GC_Gear_Shift 0.05 m
Wing_V 1.5

;
[Params]
;

SpinCxLoss 0.06
SpinCyLoss 0.03

Vmin 170.0 kmh
Vmax 470.0 kmh
VmaxAllowed 750.0 kmh
VmaxH 560.0 kmh at 4500.0 m
VminFLAPS 130.0 kmh
VmaxFLAPS 250.0 kmh
Vz_climb 20.0 ms
V_climb 270.0 kmh
T_turn 25.0 sec
V_turn 340.0 kmh
K_max 13.0
FlapsMult 1.0
FlapsAngSh 10.0

RangeAbility 480 km

SensYaw 0.6
SensPitch 0.7
SensRoll 0.32

;
[Polares]
;

lineCyCoeff 0.091
AOAMinCx_Shift 0.2
Cy0_0 0.15
AOACritH_0 18.0
AOACritL_0 -15.0
CyCritH_0 1.3
CyCritL_0 -0.64417434
CxMin_0 0.0275
parabCxCoeff_0 6.2E-4
Cy0_1 0.55
AOACritH_1 17.0
AOACritL_1 -19.0
CyCritH_1 1.62
CyCritL_1 -0.7
CxMin_1 0.11
parabCxCoeff_1 8.7E-4

slatAOACritHInc 3.0
slatCyCritHInc 1.3
slatParabCxCoeffInc 0.8E-4

parabAngle 5.0
Decline 0.010
maxDistAng 35.0

; ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[DB601A]
; ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


General MaximalPower 1020 sPS DryWeight 590 kg Displacement 33.9 litre Cylinders 12 Bore 150 mm Stroke 160 mm Compression 6.9
Reliability Lifetime 100 h FailureProbability 0.0

RPM Minimal 500 Nominal 2200 Maximal 2326 Saturated 9999 Continuous 2326 Limiting 3000 Direction Right
Intake Ramming 0.5
Exhaust PlainBackpipe
Supercharger SingleStageHydroCoupling Efficiency 0.23 LimiterInput Manifold NominalPressure 1.35 bar ContinuousPressure 1.2 bar WEPPressure 1.45 bar NominalAltitude 4500 m
Valvetrain Generic SlowRunningEfficiency 0.1
FuelPump Pushrod NominalPressure 3 bar at 500 RPM
Carburettor GenericDirectInjection OrificeSlowFast 0.05 sec Dresser ThrottleDriven Input 0.75 to 1.0 Output 1.0 to 1.2
Starter Mechanical
Ignition DualMagneto FrontEfficiency 0.57

Throttle Slider Translation Linear Bore 7.9 cm IdleOpening 0.05 WEPType ClockworkWEPModeToggle OperatingTime 1 min CooldownTime 10 sec
Pitch Slider Angle Min 82 deg Max 26 deg WEP 40 deg Feathering Nil
Mix Slider Multiplier Range 0.7 to 1.0

CylinderHead Material CastIron Temperatures Min 120 C Nominal 140 C Max 160 C
AirRadiator Tunnel Louvre Nil FlowControl Nil
Water Material Glycol Reserve 75 kg Temperatures Min 40 C Nominal 94 C Max 115 C
WaterRadiator ThermostatedTunnel Pressurized Louvre Mechanical OpensAt 80 C FlowControl Manual ContinuousAt 0.25 MinimalDragAt 0.25 MaxDragEquivalentS 100 cm2
Oil Material Oil Reserve 8.5 gal Pressure 70 lbsqin at 600 RPM Temperatures Min 30 C Nominal 75 C Max 105 C
OilRadiator ThermostatedTunnel Louvre Mechanical OpensAt 20 C FlowControl Manual ContinuousAt 0.25 MinimalDragAt 0.25 MaxDragEquivalentS 100 cm2

Propellor Reductor 0.64516129 Governor VariablePitch BladeAngleSpeed 1 degsec

SoundName motor.merlin

;
[Generic]
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Construction VisualModel VDM Diameter 3100 mm Blades 3 BladeBreadthK 0.8 Mass 140 kg AngleRange 26 deg to 82 deg
DeIcing Nil

lineCyCoeff 0.07
AOAMinCx_Shift 0.0
Cy0_0 0.0
AOACritH_0 24.0
AOACritL_0 -22.0
CyCritH_0 1.3
CyCritL_0 -0.8
CxMin_0 0.02
parabCxCoeff_0 3.8E-4

parabAngle 7.0
Decline 0.002
maxDistAng 40.0

;