Super AI

[leadgtr81]

Luthier & Co,

First, thanks for all the hard work in getting this sim to the level it's currently at, and continuing to press on. It's nice being able to cruise around on my humble system and enjoy what the team has done thus far. However, there seem to be some outstanding issues that need addressed. For offliners like myself, it's the AI that presents an issue.

Before the latest patch, it was AI aircraft that were able to perform to the fullest with dropped landing gear, missing control surfaces, fires, large holes, leaking fluids, etc. I know I'm not the only one who's frustrated by this, especially when that heavily damaged AI is able to outmaneuver the player's undamaged and well-managed aircraft at nearly every turn. There's also the unfair boost that the AI seemed to possess. Even bombers were able to outrun & outfly a nimble fighter.

It seems that with the latest patch, the AI opponents have become increasingly superhuman while exhibiting the previous issues. Roll rates on the AI aircraft are insane. It's what I'd expect from a more modern fighter jet, but not from a WWII era prop aircraft - especially since it's seemingly impossible for the player to perform the same maneuvers without serious consequences. Other things I've noted from the AI as of the recent patch:

Problem Notes:

-Consistently climbs and/or performs multiple rolls without energy loss.
-Not subjected to blackouts.
-No evidence of overheating.
-Incredible roll rate at exceedingly high dive speeds.
-Sometimes completely unresponsive even to a long burst of gunfire into direct 6.
-Able to maneuver with dropped gear, missing surfaces, large holes, etc. as though they were undamaged. (Perhaps a case of damage model effects visibly showing, but not working in practice?)
-While aircraft fires work as advertised and damages the aircraft, the AI seems to not notice even large fires and will fight on.
-Same with billowing smoke.
-Fluids seem finite, as I've watched leaking fluids "run out". But AI aircraft are seemingly unaffected in this patch. (Watched AI engines seize up several times in earlier versions)
-Cr.42 continued to fly on after losing entire top wing surface (Old screenshot, likely first beta patch. Have not since been able to reproduce the same damage. All settings on sans CEM & had enabled icons at that time.)

Positive Notes:

-During a QMB engagement (current patch) with a Cr.42, my incendiary rounds managed to light his lower wing on fire. The pilot bailed after leveling out his aircraft.
-Same engagement, witnessed a Cr.42 maneuver too hard and stall. Spiraled 90 degrees nose-down into the channel.

--

That's just what I can think of directly off the top of my head. I'm sure that others will continue the list, as will I as more things come to mind.

While I know your plates are full as it is, I hope you're working on the AI issues so that the offliners are able to fully enjoy the sim as well.

Thanks for reading.

[ElAurens]

Very much the old AI routines from IL2.

I wonder if the 109 will spiral climb to sub orbital altitude, then pull it's nose almost straight up and accelerate as well?

Since online is pretty much a non starter I have been forced to play offline much more than normal. I don't see how you guys live with those AI as your only opponents.

It's awful.

[Orpheus]

Supporting this, I've seen some truly outrageous flying by the AI, in particular the roll rate.

[smink1701]

Agree 100 percent. The AI is on steroids. It would be great to have a slider or somthing to lower thier skill level.

[leadgtr81]

Originally Posted by smink1701

Agree 100 percent. The AI is on steroids. It would be great to have a slider or somthing to lower thier skill level.

There is in the FMB. I haven't actually seen too much of a difference, but I'm in the process of testing out various AI slider settings within FMB. If there's any sort of a difference, I'll be sure and share the news.

[baronWastelan]

I want to believe the AI doesn't cheat. Let the devs post up a track showing a human in a Spitfire at 24,000 feet dog-fighting some 109's to put all these allegations to rest once and for all. Without air-start.

[snwkill]

Definitely a +1...

It seems to me the damage is way under-done as far as physical effects on opponent aircraft. I can maybe understand being able to pump some extra rounds in a fuselage, but when you unload your whole arsenal on the engines and it still keeps on chugging along. Seems a bit wacky.

Originally Posted by leadgtr81

Luthier & Co,

First, thanks for all the hard work in getting this sim to the level it's currently at, and continuing to press on. It's nice being able to cruise around on my humble system and enjoy what the team has done thus far. However, there seem to be some outstanding issues that need addressed. For offliners like myself, it's the AI that presents an issue.

Before the latest patch, it was AI aircraft that were able to perform to the fullest with dropped landing gear, missing control surfaces, fires, large holes, leaking fluids, etc. I know I'm not the only one who's frustrated by this, especially when that heavily damaged AI is able to outmaneuver the player's undamaged and well-managed aircraft at nearly every turn. There's also the unfair boost that the AI seemed to possess. Even bombers were able to outrun & outfly a nimble fighter.

It seems that with the latest patch, the AI opponents have become increasingly superhuman while exhibiting the previous issues. Roll rates on the AI aircraft are insane. It's what I'd expect from a more modern fighter jet, but not from a WWII era prop aircraft - especially since it's seemingly impossible for the player to perform the same maneuvers without serious consequences. Other things I've noted from the AI as of the recent patch:

Problem Notes:

-Consistently climbs and/or performs multiple rolls without energy loss.
-Not subjected to blackouts.
-No evidence of overheating.
-Incredible roll rate at exceedingly high dive speeds.
-Sometimes completely unresponsive even to a long burst of gunfire into direct 6.
-Able to maneuver with dropped gear, missing surfaces, large holes, etc. as though they were undamaged. (Perhaps a case of damage model effects visibly showing, but not working in practice?)
-While aircraft fires work as advertised and damages the aircraft, the AI seems to not notice even large fires and will fight on.
-Same with billowing smoke.
-Fluids seem finite, as I've watched leaking fluids "run out". But AI aircraft are seemingly unaffected in this patch. (Watched AI engines seize up several times in earlier versions)
-Cr.42 continued to fly on after losing entire top wing surface (Old screenshot, likely first beta patch. Have not since been able to reproduce the same damage. All settings on sans CEM & had enabled icons at that time.)

Positive Notes:

-During a QMB engagement (current patch) with a Cr.42, my incendiary rounds managed to light his lower wing on fire. The pilot bailed after leveling out his aircraft.
-Same engagement, witnessed a Cr.42 maneuver too hard and stall. Spiraled 90 degrees nose-down into the channel.

--

That's just what I can think of directly off the top of my head. I'm sure that others will continue the list, as will I as more things come to mind.

While I know your plates are full as it is, I hope you're working on the AI issues so that the offliners are able to fully enjoy the sim as well.

Thanks for reading.

bump

The AI needs urgent tweak. It is me thinks now even worse than prepatch. My AI collegues overtake me with a speed difference of at least 40-50 kmh even though I am at engine limit. The roll manouevers that the AI pulls are rediculous.

And please add to list:
- in Reality the flaps of the Spit were never used in combat as the AI does. It was only used once: during landing. Only for Seafire there had been a take-off flap position but that could have been used only once (during take-off). As soon as the flaps were retracted it only could be dropped to landing configurations. So please AI Spits should not use flaps. Also it seems that AI is not impacted by drag increase with flaps dropped. Myself in a 109 at max engine power have been overtaken by a Spit with lowered flaps. Not very realistic even with porked 109.

- in formation flight the flight leader turns like in old IL2 using almost exclusively the rudder instead of inclining the a/c. This is a minor issue but should be modified.

P.S.: Thanks though for the hard work you put in. Please keep 'em coming, the patches I mean.

[KeBrAnTo]

I agree AI behaviour needs to be fixed. It is true that AI got "superpowers" in the actual version of the game. What I cannot understand yet is why the hell sometimes enemy AI pilots start flying a bit stupid way (straight, levelled and getting shot meanwhile) and the same pilot was doing unbelievable manouvers when you got his 6 three minutes before.

I do not understand it.

[Bakelit]

Maybe the developers should study the "BoB:WoV" product by Shockwave/A2A in this regard.

This is NO snotty smart remark or cheap shot at Ilya and crew.

The AI behavior of single aircraft and squadrons or groups is for me the best of all WW2 simulation AI. Of course this was not so on release by Rowan in late 2000. But the foundations were there and after much work by a talented AI coder now its very believeable and leads to a good single player experience.