CoD's 109E4 canons : overdone ?

Actually I always thought that the minengeschoss is slightly undermodelled particularly with respect to the damage it should do on the primary structure. It seems to make only damage on the skin (holes) that does take some stress in real life but not as much as the carrying structure. The minengeschoss as modelled in the game seems only to punch large holes and that's it.

As we can see in the vid the damage by the 108 on the ribs and spars is considerable and should rip off the wing under load greater than 1g (or perhaps even at lower g as the wing in the vid seems to be supported by some structure).

Of course I do not expect exactly the same damage by the minengeschoss as the calliber was smaller (I think by 25% smaller)

Of course this is my personal thinking.

[TomcatViP]

This is 30mm shells. They are much bigger than 20mm and carry both more kinetic and chemical destructive power.

If we stay on that line, 30mm canons in future add-on would be modeled just like laser ray guns à la IL2's Mig-9

What I want to say is that the E4 canons bring too much improvement regarding those of the E3 (see the % of damages) and feel like being way too optimistic in hit rate (see the nbr of shells needed averagely per kill).

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

This is 30mm shells. They are much bigger than 20mm and carry both more kinetic and chemical destructive power.

If we stay on that line, 30mm canons in future add-on would be modeled just like laser ray guns à la IL2's Mig-9

What I want to say is that the E4 canons bring too much improvement regarding those of the E3 (see the % of damages) and feel like being way too optimistic in hit rate (see the nbr of shells needed averagely per kill).

Well, chemical destructive power in a shell = explosive. Or do you mean the chemical destructive power meant that it will on impact corrode the material away? I guess that is not what the chemical stuff was meant to do as it would have taken too much time to take effect

If we equate explosive power to the mass then we can make a rapid and simplified calculation on what could be estimated as the explosive power of a 20mm shell wrt a 30mm shell:

volume 20mm shell / volume 30mm shell (assuming overall same length) = 20^2 / 30^2 = 0.44. Ok let's say that the volume of a 20mm shell is about 40% of a 30 mm shell. I think this can be somewhat used as an approximation of the detonation mass that is we may now estimate the explosion power of a 20mm shell to about 40% of the explosive power of a 30mm shell. Comparing this to the video 40% of the damage shown would still mean considerable damage ... and even 30% of the damage would have impaired the plane considerably imho ...

[TomcatViP]

I had a more impressive image in my books but can't remeber where.

here is an extract from the excellent website : http://www.quarry.nildram.co.uk/tankammo4.htm

Legend : WW2 AIRCRAFT GUN AMMUNITION (2)

20x101RB (Oerlikon FFL/IJN Type 99-2), 20x110RB (Oerlikon FFS/HS Type 7, 9), 20x110 (Hispano HS 404), 20x125 (IJA Ho-1, Ho-3), 23x152B (23mm VYa), 30x90RB (MK 10 , 30x184B (MK 101/MK 103), 37x145R (US M4, M10), 37x195 (NS-37)

You can see on this same website the comparison btw HS404 and MGFF M

[TomcatViP]

Regarding the Corrosive power of shells as Storm mentioned, that's a thing that I won't put frwd to devs for the next patch

Well at least that a good idea for the next gen non-lethal super weapon.

But Chemical and kinetics E are the ones you usely talks abt in such a discussion

Here is another one of highly improbable kill rate in a E4 offline. I can assure you that those plane (AI) were maneouvring

[pupo162]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

Regarding the Corrosive power of shells as Storm mentioned, that's a thing that I won't put frwd to devs for the next patch

Well at least that a good idea for the next gen non-lethal super weapon.

But Chemical and kinetics E are the ones you usely talks abt in such a discussion

Here is another one of highly improbable kill rate in a E4 offline. I can assure you that those plane (AI) were maneouvring

8 bullets hit in 20, let me say awsome accuracy.

then let me ask: where did they hit? if they hit the pilot, im not amazed, except by your accuracy.

[TomcatViP]

Originally Posted by pupo162

8 bullets hit in 20, let me say awsome accuracy.

then let me ask: where did they hit? if they hit the pilot, im not amazed, except by your accuracy.

Thx

...

But I fear that this score hve nothing to do with me.

Hit rate is too optimistic with shells patterns likes cylinders with some sort of proximity fuse.

Unless I miss something I don't remember those 20mm being such.

Pls remember :
1st : I can't hve the same hit ratio in my E3 than in a E4.
2ndly ; the diff in kill rate is over 100%

@ CheeseHawk : ok but if one shell is enough for a kill it does not mean that with a single shell you will score a kill

[robtek]

Don't forget that the rounds for the MG-FF/M are much faster than the older rounds for the MG-FF, so maybe with the same convergence in the same situation you might miss with the slower rounds and just hit with the faster rounds.

[5./JG27.Farber]

Originally Posted by robtek

Don't forget that the rounds for the MG-FF/M are much faster than the older rounds for the MG-FF, so maybe with the same convergence in the same situation you might miss with the slower rounds and just hit with the faster rounds.

+1

[VO101_Tom]

Originally Posted by TomcatViP

This is 30mm shells. They are much bigger than 20mm and carry both more kinetic and chemical destructive power.

If we stay on that line, 30mm canons in future add-on would be modeled just like laser ray guns à la IL2's Mig-9

What I want to say is that the E4 canons bring too much improvement regarding those of the E3 (see the % of damages) and feel like being way too optimistic in hit rate (see the nbr of shells needed averagely per kill).

I know, its not MG-FF/M, but the 20 mm M-Geschoss have devastating effect too, not only the 30mm (against a P47!):

http://riseofflight.com/forum/viewto...219796#p219796