Dogfighting -does 4.11-4.12 patch address this?

[Pugo3]

While I'm on the subjsect of aircraft performance...

I've read mostly positive reviews of the 4.11 - 4.12 patches regarding the improvements to AI characteristics. All good, I look forward to installing these patches, thanks to the good people and their work on our behalf. However, have the following issues been addressed?

1) Previously, if the AI aircraft's performance in Quick mission is greater that yours, it climbs away to begin a series of endless 'jousting' head on passes/bounces. No dogfighting ever, just jousting - endless jousting. Has anyone else ever been able to close in dogfight a P-51 with a Me 109, Fw 190?

It actually did happen, no, really it did. Honest to God, it really did happen occasionally.

I can only do so using another simm. Never mind this is not historical in the main, that the vast majority of encounter were close in dogfighting. The opportunity to see how one aircraft would compare in a dogfight with another is N/A - my chief complaint with Il-2 over the years. I know many love jousting and bouncing, but would it hurt to at least somehow be able just once to acutally dogfight another aircraft? Just once?

2) If one chooses to dogfifght with multiple AI aircraft, for some unknown reason the AI aircraft become rocket powered, absolutely boosted performance. I actually most time enjoy this as it ads challenge, but at the same time I'm aware that this is an inaccuracy, and I would like to see how I would fare against multiple aircraft with realistic flight characteristics maintained even with increased number of advesaries.

Love Il-2, many thanks to all who created it and are working to improve the product. Just please accept as recommendations to improve the brand.

[Fenrir]

Originally Posted by Pugo3

While I'm on the subjsect of aircraft performance...

I've read mostly positive reviews of the 4.11 - 4.12 patches regarding the improvements to AI characteristics. All good, I look forward to installing these patches, thanks to the good people and their work on our behalf. However, have the following issues been addressed?

1) Previously, if the AI aircraft's performance in Quick mission is greater that yours, it climbs away to begin a series of endless 'jousting' head on passes/bounces. No dogfighting ever, just jousting - endless jousting. Has anyone else ever been able to close in dogfight a P-51 with a Me 109, Fw 190?

It actually did happen, no, really it did. Honest to God, it really did happen occasionally.

I can only do so using another simm. Never mind this is not historical in the main, that the vast majority of encounter were close in dogfighting. The opportunity to see how one aircraft would compare in a dogfight with another is N/A - my chief complaint with Il-2 over the years. I know many love jousting and bouncing, but would it hurt to at least somehow be able just once to acutally dogfight another aircraft? Just once?

2) If one chooses to dogfifght with multiple AI aircraft, for some unknown reason the AI aircraft become rocket powered, absolutely boosted performance. I actually most time enjoy this as it ads challenge, but at the same time I'm aware that this is an inaccuracy, and I would like to see how I would fare against multiple aircraft with realistic flight characteristics maintained even with increased number of advesaries.

Love Il-2, many thanks to all who created it and are working to improve the product. Just please accept as recommendations to improve the brand.

1) So, let me understand you here; you buy a game that attempts to provide a realistic virtual experience of WW2 air combat and are complaining that it's too realistic?

Errrrr.... sorry, my cerebral logic fuse just tripped. Try again later.


2) Boosted performance? I have not detected anything of that nature. Sure the AI can calculate to the last degree centigrade when they overheat and trim perfectly, so they have a marginal advantage over a breather, but I've never seen the rocket ship behavior you describe, plus you have an innate ability to abstract. Believe me the advantage is with you.

I suspect your self-confessed love of dogfighting is causing you to blow what energy you have in a series of heavy handed yank & bank manoeuvres as you target fixate and desperately try and get a guns solution on one e/a. Suddenly you find yourself low, slow and out of talent as the AI who have kept height and speed - and therefore initiative - come in and force you lower and slower till you are inevitably blown out of the sky or in a panicky avoidance manoeuvre misjudge or over control and put your self in the dirt.

Air combat and dogfighting are not one and the same. Neither are they mutually exclusive. I suspect that you need to learn to pick your fights better, fight more energy economically and learn to read the fight better so that you cotton on when it's going against you and you need to disengage.

It's not up to the developers to undo all their hard work to make this sim as realistic as possible in order to cater for your lack of skill.

I recommend you take some time, read and absorb this: http://www.virtualpilots.fi/feature/.../inpursuit.pdf

[Woke Up Dead]

Hi Pugo, the AI aircraft are more aggressive and evade better in the new patches, though the ones with speed and/or climb advantages still like to use those advantages to "joust," as you describe it.

However, I believe it was the 4.11 patch that introduced something new to QMB: the ability to give yourself an altitude and/or a position advantage over your opponent. Want to make that 109 fight rather than just climb away? Give yourself a 500, 1000, or even 2000m starting altitude advantage over him and he won't have a choice.

I'm glad that you recognize that this is a game that should be fun, I think the changes to the QMB options and to the AI behaviour of the last two patches have made it more so.

[J9Masano]

It's not up to the developers to undo all their hard work to make this sim as realistic as possible in order to cater for your lack of skill.

[X-Raptor]

Originally Posted by J9Masano

It's not up to the developers to undo all their hard work to make this sim as realistic as possible in order to cater for your lack of skill.

But the developers should PRIMARY work on correcting the wrong and cheat A.I. code.
This shoud be done not for cater any lack of skill but this should be made just to take in consideration all work of test and criticism by all people in the community addressed HERE about A.i. wrong behaviour that are still present into the game after years.. But TD seem at the contrary more interested to emphatize all this wrong aspects:

- A.I. now kill you with a single head-on pass (...)
- Firing to any A.I. result in an -immediate- salvo into your tail from another A.I.

just only to tell FEW of most evident -cheat-A.I.-behaviours- that are becoming worse and worse after any pach released by TD.

[IceFire]

The AI has been given a huge makeover and is so much better than it used to be. It can deflection shoot, it takes shots and guesses in a more realistic way, it can't see through itself like it used to... this is considered more cheating?

[gaunt1]

Originally Posted by IceFire

The AI has been given a huge makeover and is so much better than it used to be. It can deflection shoot, it takes shots and guesses in a more realistic way, it can't see through itself like it used to... this is considered more cheating?

Well, Im quite satisfied with the AI (even though there are a few problems). But, for example that AI is immune to G effects, or AI can hit you up to 6-700meters, can be considered as cheating.

[MaxGunz]

Originally Posted by Pugo3

Never mind this is not historical in the main, that the vast majority of encounter were close in dogfighting.

Whoever told you that or however you got that idea, it is wrong. 75% of downed planes pilots never saw their attacker.

But you can read stories and construct a selective reality, join Gaston and start preaching that FW-190's were actually better low speed turners than Spitfires and other I-can-read-words nonsense.

[Janosch]

The AI has several obvious performance boosts and other advantages, but the mistakes that even an ace AI opponent sometimes does are huge.

[Laurwin]

Originally Posted by Janosch

The AI has several obvious performance boosts and other advantages, but the mistakes that even an ace AI opponent sometimes does are huge.

Interesting observation. What would these aerodynamic boosts to AI be?
I know theres probably no g-lock for AI first of all. Second of all, is the AI performed barrell-roll defense, during which not only is the defender rolling insanely fast, but he is also outrunning a faster attacker! This looks quite baffling when its done by the AI. I mean, it is done with a shallow diving barrel-roll, but equally importantly constant rolling
ought to slow their speed down quite a bit, right?