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IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey Famous title comes to consoles.

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  #51  
Old 09-01-2009, 05:55 PM
Soviet Ace Soviet Ace is offline
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Originally Posted by FOZ_1983 View Post
Wasnt the IX rushed into production to counter the threat of the FW190?

just a stroke of luck and pure genius that the IX turned out to be an extrordinary spitfire, making it an all round excellent bird. The best of the "war spits"
I wouldn't say "rushed" as that usually means they just said "Add this gun wing and engine, and hurry it out." More it was hastened into production to counter the FW threat, and the British were in need of a new Spitfire anyway
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  #52  
Old 09-01-2009, 06:55 PM
David603 David603 is offline
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Originally Posted by Soviet Ace View Post
I wouldn't say "rushed" as that usually means they just said "Add this gun wing and engine, and hurry it out." More it was hastened into production to counter the FW threat, and the British were in need of a new Spitfire anyway
Replace gun wing and engine with just engine and you have the exact way the IX came into life.

The original Spitfire MkI was replaced by the very similar but slightly more powerful Spitfire MkII, and this was supposed to be replaced with the more refined and more powerful MkIII. The need for rapid improvement to match the threat posed by the Bf109F saw the MkIII's engine being put in a MkII airframe to produce the MkV instead (MkIV was the prototype Griffon Spitfire). The MkVI was a high altitude MkV, and the MkVII was another high altitude Spitfire, but incorporating the improvements meant for the MkIII and a two stage Merlin engine. The MkVIII was a low-medium level version of the MkVII, minus the pressurised cockpit and the extended wingtips. Like the MkIII, it was overtaken by the need for a big leap in performance to match the Fw190, so the another unplanned version came about, the MkIX, which was produced by sticking the two stage Merlin in a Spitfire MkV airframe. Luckily the MkIX proved a very good performer, but even so the MkVIII replaced it on the production lines eventually.
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  #53  
Old 09-01-2009, 07:02 PM
Soviet Ace Soviet Ace is offline
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Originally Posted by David603 View Post
Replace gun wing and engine with just engine and you have the exact way the IX came into life.

The original Spitfire MkI was replaced by the very similar but slightly more powerful Spitfire MkII, and this was supposed to be replaced with the more refined and more powerful MkIII. The need for rapid improvement to match the threat posed by the Bf109F saw the MkIII's engine being put in a MkII airframe to produce the MkV instead (MkIV was the prototype Griffon Spitfire). The MkVI was a high altitude MkV, and the MkVII was another high altitude Spitfire, but incorporating the improvements meant for the MkIII and a two stage Merlin engine. The MkVIII was a low-medium level version of the MkVII, minus the pressurised cockpit and the extended wingtips. Like the MkIII, it was overtaken by the need for a big leap in performance to match the Fw190, so the another unplanned version came about, the MkIX, which was produced by sticking the two stage Merlin in a Spitfire MkV airframe. Luckily the MkIX proved a very good performer, but even so the MkVIII replaced it on the production lines eventually.
Well damn, I just can't be right today can I We should keep to Soviet Aircraft
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  #54  
Old 09-01-2009, 07:12 PM
David603 David603 is offline
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Originally Posted by Soviet Ace View Post
Well damn, I just can't be right today can I We should keep to Soviet Aircraft
Maybe we should There are some interesting ones in Birds of Prey and I have this strange feeling they will all have cockpits
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  #55  
Old 09-01-2009, 08:33 PM
Elguapo123 Elguapo123 is offline
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Originally Posted by David603 View Post
Replace gun wing and engine with just engine and you have the exact way the IX came into life.

The original Spitfire MkI was replaced by the very similar but slightly more powerful Spitfire MkII, and this was supposed to be replaced with the more refined and more powerful MkIII. The need for rapid improvement to match the threat posed by the Bf109F saw the MkIII's engine being put in a MkII airframe to produce the MkV instead (MkIV was the prototype Griffon Spitfire). The MkVI was a high altitude MkV, and the MkVII was another high altitude Spitfire, but incorporating the improvements meant for the MkIII and a two stage Merlin engine. The MkVIII was a low-medium level version of the MkVII, minus the pressurised cockpit and the extended wingtips. Like the MkIII, it was overtaken by the need for a big leap in performance to match the Fw190, so the another unplanned version came about, the MkIX, which was produced by sticking the two stage Merlin in a Spitfire MkV airframe. Luckily the MkIX proved a very good performer, but even so the MkVIII replaced it on the production lines eventually.
So, it sounds like the Spitfire was always being improved in response to the German improvements. Were there any versions that made the Germans respond to the spit?
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  #56  
Old 09-01-2009, 08:40 PM
David603 David603 is offline
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Originally Posted by Elguapo123 View Post
So, it sounds like the Spitfire was always being improved in response to the German improvements. Were there any versions that made the Germans respond to the spit?
Directly in response to specific improvements of the Spitfire? Not 100% sure of this but I don't think so, though the Germans realised the Bf109E was struggling to cope with the Spitfire I and II, but the Bf109F was too big a step up from the E to be a direct response to any specific version of the Spitfire.
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  #57  
Old 09-01-2009, 10:55 PM
redtiger02 redtiger02 is offline
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Originally Posted by FOZ_1983 View Post
If it wasnt great then they would of ceased production. It carried on until wars end, why? because it was a useful aircraft to have.

Operation torch, i guess you never met the hurricane MkII armed with four 20MM cannons and 500lb bomb? the hurri bomber as they were known, did a excellent job. During and following the five-day El Alamein artillery barrage that commenced on the night of 23 October 1942, six squadrons of Hurricanes claimed to have destroyed 39 tanks, 212 lorries and armoured troop-carriers, 26 bowsers, 42 guns, 200 various other vehicles and four small fuel and ammunition dumps, flying 842 sorties with the loss of 11 pilots. Whilst performing in a ground support role, Hurricanes based at RAF Castel Benito, Tripoli, knocked out six tanks, 13 armoured vehicles, ten lorries, five half-tracks, a gun and trailer, and a wireless van on 10 March 1943, with no losses to themselves.

only the rear fuselage was mostly fabric, you mention the down side but what about the good points? the armour plating behind the pilot to protect him?

Hurricane night intruder missions were extremly successful!! ever heard of Karel Kuttelwascher?? a czech pilot who flew night intruder missions in the hurricane over france.

Could the de havilland mosquito land and take off from a carrier? nope (though a model was designed for this but never mass produced due to wars end i believe). The mossie was superb, and was even a great dogfighter, but the hurricane was far more versatile, helped of course by its thick sturdy wings.


out dated at the start of the war?? hardly. It was obsolete as a fighter by 1941 but not out dated at all.


Read everything the RAF had to say about it, then try and debate it. Considering that the RAF and the pilots that flew it said it was outdated at the start of the war, I am taking their word over yours, naturally. And it was cheap. They were able to crank them out at such a rapid pace that there was no way the Luftwaffe could win. But, that's the catch. The RAF had plenty of planes, it was pilots they were running out of. I gave you every piece of factual information on the planes I know from doing a doctoral thesis on the fall of the Luftwaffe, and research done before I went on to comment about the situation. The ONLY reason I won't continue to debate this, despite providing more than adequate information, is that as a veteran, after much though about this, for any of us to debate the planes this far is to do a great disservice to the men who flew them. An airplane is a collection of metal pieces (or burning fabric in the case of the Hurricane), that's all it is and will ever be. The British planes did not win the Battle of Britain, the pilots did. There are many real-life tales of British pilots that were shot down, then made it back to the airfield and flew another mission in the same day. The Spitfire was a great plane, no doubt about that, but you need to take a moment to stop and think about the men behind it and what they were facing. The fact that more P-40s ran ground-support in North Africa than Hurricanes is meaningless. Flying an airplane is a highly technical skill even without someone shooting at you. Otherwise, everybody would do it.

These men took and impossible situation and won by sheer willpower, the plane is totally irrelevant. There were quite a few battles on the Eastern Front where Russian pilots went up against the most modern air force in the world in planes that were more outdated than the Hurricane, yet they were able to win through sheer determination. I don't care if you're in a Me-262 with twin jet engines and 4 x 30mm cannons, 2 Russians in biplanes with enough determination will annihilate you, even if it's with their last breath. Simple point, it;s not the plane that makes the pilot, it's the pilot that makes the plane. A little research goes a long way.
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  #58  
Old 09-01-2009, 11:16 PM
FOZ_1983 FOZ_1983 is offline
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You seem very hostile towards the hurricane, and why...i have no idea. Nor do i care, I personally think differently, and im sure many others (pete brothers) would agree that the hurricane did a good job.

How many hurricane pilots do you know? have you spoken to? not just read about online?


i will not get into a debate nor argue with you, because your arguement or debate seems very one sided, and that is against the hurricane. Their is no compromise it seems.
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  #59  
Old 09-01-2009, 11:29 PM
skullblits skullblits is offline
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So if you strap wings to a man and give him a gun He'll beat a any plane?? Sounds silly what your saying.


Why so hostile towards the hurricane?? If we didnt have it, Id be speakin german
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  #60  
Old 09-01-2009, 11:29 PM
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Robotic Pope Robotic Pope is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redtiger02 View Post
These men took and impossible situation and won by sheer willpower, the plane is totally irrelevant. There were quite a few battles on the Eastern Front where Russian pilots went up against the most modern air force in the world in planes that were more outdated than the Hurricane, yet they were able to win through sheer determination. I don't care if you're in a Me-262 with twin jet engines and 4 x 30mm cannons, 2 Russians in biplanes with enough determination will annihilate you, even if it's with their last breath. Simple point, it;s not the plane that makes the pilot, it's the pilot that makes the plane. A little research goes a long way.
Thats going a bit far huh? Of coarse the plane matters otherwise pilots would have fought WWII in hang gliders. What mattered was the pilot needed to be at one with the plane. An inferior plane that gave it's pilot confidence and trust would perform better than a superior plane without feeling. The Hurricane gave pilots confidence which leads to determination.
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