Campaigns as Axis?

[xNikex]

Originally Posted by versapak

Yeah they were doing their jobs, and of course they weren't all evil. The cause they were fighting for certainly was evil though, and it (the cause) deserves no glorification in a game.

Not glorified, but relived from their point of view.

There were plenty of Luftwaffe pilots who didn't want to fight and never thought they'd make it through the war.

[versapak]

Originally Posted by xNikex

Not glorified, but relived from their point of view.

There were plenty of Luftwaffe pilots who didn't want to fight and never thought they'd make it through the war.

So you want a Nazi campaign where you play as people complaining about doing their evil job?






There is no need to tell the story of Nazis from their point of view, unless their point of view is anti-nazi, which is then NOT playing a Nazi campaign.



I am all for being able to set up those single missions flying their technology, but there is absolutely no need for any sort of campaign for it.

[xNikex]

Originally Posted by versapak

So you want a Nazi campaign where you play as people complaining about doing their evil job?






There is no need to tell the story of Nazis from their point of view, unless their point of view is anti-nazi, which is then NOT playing a Nazi campaign.



I am all for being able to set up those single missions flying their technology, but there is absolutely no need for any sort of campaign for it.

I can make everyone's posts look negative if I try too.

[David603]

There was an interesting test carried out by an American scientist named Stanley Milgram in the late 1960s. He got a group of ordinary Americans, and devised an experiment where the subject thought he/she was administering a series of electrical shocks to another person whenever they made an incorrect answer. 65% of the test subjects repeatedly administered a voltage that resulted in the "victim" screaming in agony and thrashing around audibly.

The percentage was even higher if the subject could observe other people apparently participating in the experiment and administering the same high voltages to other "victims".

Given the same situation as your average concentration camp guard in Germany, let alone a more honourable service such as the Luftwaffe, most people would have done the same.

[MAYAman]

Oh Versa also, not the entire German army was involved in the atocoties. Mostly SS and Waffen SS, the regualr Vermacht army was just like an American Joe, fighting because they are professional soldiers. Same goes for many of the pilots. Were there Zeolots? Sure. Are they any different from any conquering Army from Ceaser, to napoleon, to Atttlla the Hun, etc etc.

Like I said, what if scenarios are fascinating and to a history buff like me I expect it. Hell, channels like the History channel and the military channel would be off the air completely if they didn't have shows like Wings of the Luftwaffe and Hitlers bodyguards. LOL

Also, much of our military was built on captured or learned German military tactics and hardware. Our entire space program started with Von Brown, a captured Nazi. So many other instances where we borrowed, stole, or used the spoils of war from the so called evil doers.

[gozorak]

I dont think anyone should have to qualify, or explain why they would want to play as a Luftwaffe pilot...its a freaking video game..thats all that it is...Ive never gunned down cops or innocent civilians and I never will ..but it sure as hell is fun to do in GTA4. You have to play as the Japs in Battlefield 1943...and its fun running around with your melee samuari sword killing Marines and I prefer flying the Zero in that game to the Corsair..so what..I have a blast playing through JFK Reloaded from time to time...again doesnt make me an assassin or sympathetic to assassins. Now if someone ever released Sim Concentration Camp there might be a big PR problem but I would probably play that as well because its only a game...

[Mr Greezy]

Most of what I wanted to say has already been said.

To think that by playing the Axis forces in a flight simulator is somehow glorifying the "evil Nazi cause" is a little narrow-minded. The horror stories of extermination camps and other war atrocities were committed, as someone posted earlier, by specific divisions created by Hitler to deal with those "problems". If you see SS in any German military designation, you can assume they were pretty determined in a cause that went above the "call of duty" that a regular Wermacht, Panzer, or Luftwaffe service member adhered to.

They were soldiers. And they had specific technology and tactics that would be interesting to explore.

That said, I've played plenty of games, in a campaign mode (I know, the audacity) that involved me controlling SS troops. But none of the games that I played were titled Rounding Up Jews or Expanding an Empire to Establish Racial Superiority. They were games like the original Sturmovik series, Close Combat, etc.

The men and women that were involved in the Axis forces during WWII were people too. Some of them did horrible things. Japan, Italy, Germany, all of them have a list of war crimes. But let's not say that the Allies weren't guilty of some regrettable actions. Both in WWII, Korea, Viet Nam...and...well...I always think it's funny how we frown on aggressor nations when America itself is in another country with no justified reason right now.

A lot of people paint WWII as a black and white conflict. Someone else pointed out that war is never that way. It's many shades of grey, and both sides involve human beings.

[guiltyspark]

Originally Posted by gozorak

I dont think anyone should have to qualify, or explain why they would want to play as a Luftwaffe pilot...its a freaking video game..thats all that it is...Ive never gunned down cops or innocent civilians and I never will ..but it sure as hell is fun to do in GTA4. You have to play as the Japs in Battlefield 1943...and its fun running around with your melee samuari sword killing Marines and I prefer flying the Zero in that game to the Corsair..so what..I have a blast playing through JFK Reloaded from time to time...again doesnt make me an assassin or sympathetic to assassins. Now if someone ever released Sim Concentration Camp there might be a big PR problem but I would probably play that as well because its only a game...

well no , an amazing amount of people are drop dead ignorant when it comes to history

alot of people actually think that everyone who fought on the german side was a die hard nazi who wanted to drink the blood of the jews.

While a good amount of people during the period were a part of the nazi party , it didnt mean they were fighting for hitler , or his ideals.

At the time in history the german people were recovering from a completely humiliating defeat in ww1 , which as a result of the treaty of versille it completely disarmed germany as a nation militarily.

Hitler was a voice of hope for germany , a beacon of light in a dark tunnel. Much like the american people looked toward obama in the recent election (not saying that obama is a nazi)

People were nazis back then because it was the "thing" to do , It was the most effective way to show your patriotism to germany (not hitler)

Now the SS , thats a different story , those guys were sworn to hitler. those were the sick fucks that you imagine when you hear the word nazi.

But again , not ALL of them were completely brainwashed sicko's , alot of them just wanted to show the most support for germany as possible by signing up for the prestigous honor of being hitlers SS.

Back to the point


There is no reason why games cannot feature a story of the german soldier or pilot . Because a vast majority of them were fighting for their rights as a nation like anyone else

[gozorak]

I also think that many german pilots while weary of the war and its costs, particularly late in the day, nevertheless felt a heavy responsibility and duty to defend german cities from the mass bombing attacks carried out by the allies. Most bombs dropped, the vast majority in fact, never hit their intended targets. Many civilians were killed of course and whole cities were leveled. Then of course there was the intentional destruction of civilians and cities through firebombing. I think looking back, as horrific as the toll must have been on the German people, on the Japanese people as well, it was a toll that had to be paid considering their complicity in the rise of the nationalistic militancy in both countries that set the world to a war of unmatched brutality, death, and destruction.

Having said that, I can understand and even empathize with the german fighter pilot and the seemingly hopeless circumstances he found himself in as the end was near.

[xNikex]

Originally Posted by guiltyspark

well no , an amazing amount of people are drop dead ignorant when it comes to history

alot of people actually think that everyone who fought on the german side was a die hard nazi who wanted to drink the blood of the jews.

While a good amount of people during the period were a part of the nazi party , it didnt mean they were fighting for hitler , or his ideals.

At the time in history the german people were recovering from a completely humiliating defeat in ww1 , which as a result of the treaty of versille it completely disarmed germany as a nation militarily.

Hitler was a voice of hope for germany , a beacon of light in a dark tunnel. Much like the american people looked toward obama in the recent election (not saying that obama is a nazi)

People were nazis back then because it was the "thing" to do , It was the most effective way to show your patriotism to germany (not hitler)

Now the SS , thats a different story , those guys were sworn to hitler. those were the sick fucks that you imagine when you hear the word nazi.

But again , not ALL of them were completely brainwashed sicko's , alot of them just wanted to show the most support for germany as possible by signing up for the prestigous honor of being hitlers SS.

Back to the point


There is no reason why games cannot feature a story of the german soldier or pilot . Because a vast majority of them were fighting for their rights as a nation like anyone else

Nicely put...