Prop Pitch question...

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by DKoor

Anyhow, if you mess around with Bf-109 prop pitch you will gain nothing; at best you will just get crappy performance, at worst you get a ruined engine. It wasn't always like that, but due to prop pitch exploit (109 always climbed like a rocket, but even more so with prop pitch exploit, from Auto to 100%) OM team made manual prop pitch unusable for performance gains in 109's some time ago in some patch (can't recall exactly).

The strange thing is that German really used that exploit during the BoB (Manual Pitch for a faster compression of the air and Auto Pitch for the release of a better boost).

Infact English people could recognize a 109 from a Merlin engined airplane simply hearing the sound emetted fomr the engine: the 109's sound wasn't linear, but was a highrev sound followed by a lowrev sound, while the spitfire sound was quite constant.

[Skoshi Tiger]

With most of the aircraft in IL2 being fitted with Constant Speed props, we need our friendly mod community to change the "prop pitch" message to a "Engine RPM" (or something similar) and it would clear up most of the problems in understanding.

The only ones that would be upset would be the LW pilots that use the manual pitch settings, which we are told lead to a can of worms anyway! ( That would lead to a bigger whine than 109 at full throttle )

[steppie]

I of the question you have to ask your self in regards to CSP and that is why and how they used them.

In the Battle britan the hurricane and spitfire could only use Max house power for 2 mins and the merlin engine if over revs by 150 RPM they would have to replace it.
Every 200 hour of operation they have to over haul the motor.
The way the game is model to the real thing is a big difference and the fact that i can run a spitfire mkIXC 25bls and full power till i run out of fuel was and is impossible to do in real life.

the only time i lower the RPM is if i get engine damage out side of that there is no needed to do it because i can fly constantly at the higher RPM means that i can cruise faster, climb fast and respond fast if i needed to. And as for over heating most engine will not over at 90% throttle even with the rads closed.

You also have to remember that to get a motor to produce 1400 HP is hard to do and even today it is hard to find (if not impossible) a piston engine that has the same weight and HP as the merlin they did it in 1945.

[KG26_Alpha]

Originally Posted by 6S.Manu

The strange thing is that German really used that exploit during the BoB (Manual Pitch for a faster compression of the air and Auto Pitch for the release of a better boost).

Infact English people could recognize a 109 from a Merlin engined airplane simply hearing the sound emetted fomr the engine: the 109's sound wasn't linear, but was a highrev sound followed by a lowrev sound, while the spitfire sound was quite constant.

What's your source for this information ?

Don't confuse the drone of the bombers which was different for Axis and Allieds, the German bombers would sound like they were pitching up and down due to unsynchronized engines.
My house was on the WW2 German bombing flight path and the flak enplacement at the end of my road (London) was active at night and the listening stations along with radar would identify the enemy, locally by sound then confirmed to fire barrage flak.
Some of my neighbours have lived here since the war and are useful for local history etc.

[6S.Manu]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

What's your source for this information ?

Don't confuse the drone of the bombers which was different for Axis and Allieds, the German bombers would sound like they were pitching up and down due to unsynchronized engines.
My house was on the WW2 German bombing flight path and the flak enplacement at the end of my road (London) was active at night and the listening stations along with radar would identify the enemy, locally by sound then confirmed to fire barrage flak.
Some of my neighbours have lived here since the war and are useful for local history etc.

IIRC it was in "Spitfire on my tail" by Ulrich Steinhilper.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by Vidar_710

Example how Prop pitch should work in-game - HIGH SPEED DIVES:

Prop Pitch should be full forward to prevent over-speeding the airframe. Sounds confusing to some, I know, but here's why.

Dispite the High RPM pitch, this setting flattens the blade angle. The Govenor will prevent over-speeding the engine. The flat plane of the spinning prop now acts as a huge spinning speed-brake.

Great thread gents!

S!

\/

This happens a lot in the game, the thing is i don't how pronounced it is in comparison to real life. For example, i fly 190s a lot and i use manual pitch on everything except Doras and the 190A3 which is a custom-built mod that more closely resembles real life kommandogerat operation, so i don't have to mess with it.

As a rule of thumb, i use the following pitch settings:

100% for take-off/landing, braking in a dive and hanging it on the prop in a climb

80% in level flight/acceleration when i'm doing more than 320kmh and the start of a dive

90% when climbing or when i'm level but slower than 300kmh

60-70% when i exceed 500-600kmh and want to keep diving faster

50% when i exceed 700kmh and still want to go faster

The general rule of thumb for dives is to start at 80% and reduce 10% for every 100kmh, but in a combat situation it might become a pain to monitor closely so i go with the above settings.

I would really love it if BoB:SoW has more accurate engine modeling and management as this made a huge difference in real life. Your P47 may be way faster at 8km but it should also be much more complex and require more attention to supercharger RPMs, intercooler settings and so on when you take it into a series of dives and climbs in combat. A 109/190 on the other hand will be slower but you shouldn't have to touch anything apart from the throttle.

Things like that can probably decide the outcome of a fight due to differences in pilot workload, so it would be important to get it right.

Another thing that's missing is the constant adjustment of throttle during a climb to maintain optimal manifold pressure. I was at a friend's place and had some stick time on that Spitfire add-on for FSX. All i can say is "Wow!". It can reach rated take off power at probably 60% throttle because ambient air pressure is higher on the runway. As you go higher, the drop in ambient pressure results in a drop in manifold pressure too, so you need to advance your throttle a bit to offset this effect.

This means that maximum power is not simply a case of shoving the throttle forward against the stops, but it's more a question of maintaining the rated power settings. So, what happens when you do shove the throttle to the forward-most position in low level? Well, you can do it but you have a minute or so until it overheats and seizes. That's another thing that's missing right now, all planes can go full throttle at low altitudes and exceed the real power settings. In reality, the travel of the throttle lever is calibrated to give you the rated power settings for the top part of your flight envelope, ie your effective service ceiling and not for flight on the deck.

Using that Spitfire add-on as an example, it shouldn't make much of a difference if you are flying a regular Spit IX or a 25lbs version if the recommended settings for maximum continuous operation is +8lbs of manifold pressure. Think about it guys, being unable to go over +8lbs for most of the dogfight unless you do it briefly, like for example in a zoom climb, and then you have to let it cool off too. Now compare this to what we have in IL2, where every plane can go full throttle on the deck without penalties at all. It would make all kinds of difference in how we fight.

I wish i could link you the free PDF manual for that Spitfire add on, but the realairsimulations website isn't loading for me at the moment for some reason.

Great thread by the way.

Edit: Ok, it works now. According to the manual these are the settings for the MKXIV (the MkIX is more or less similar):
+18lbs for 5 minutes
+12lbs for takeoff
+9lbs for one hour
+7lbs max continuous power

Have a look here if you're interested: http://www.realairsimulations.com/li...it08_downloads