P-51 Combat Tips and Tricks ( Dogfight Guide )

[Janosch]

Originally Posted by pandacat

6 50's in this game is really a peashooter.

No, no, no it isn't.

[panzer1b]

Originally Posted by Janosch

No, no, no it isn't.

i agree but i still have to say i do not exactly "FEAR" 6 50s in a fw190

sure ive been killed plenty of times by them but thats usually a luckshot to the pilot or controls, rarely have i ever lost a wing (dont remember that in the last year honestly), and usually it takes a nice long burst to kill with the 50s, while a single good deflection shot will at best explode to 50cal, and at worst shut off his engine (most often its either a wing lost or black smoke/fire from engine).

now 4 20s are a HUGE threat in anything you flyy be it a fw190 or a b17, that loadout just obliterates anything with a good deflection shot and bombers with a good 1 second burst to a vulnereable spot (or just dewings it)



and as for the p51 i think its a greatly misunderstood plane

most people who fly them casually are just plain terrible, as in riupping wings off at high speed, stalling at low, and trying to outturn a zero ect

the better pilots are more then a fight and often times i end up with a damaged plane heading home. still on most online servers these pilots camp altitude and are more of a nuissance that either bnz (easily countered when hes at 700+) or try to get you when you climb to attack him (countered by flying far enough he does not see you climbing or avoiding high altitude all together). they rarely kill you if you know what you are doing but still removing a good p51 pilot from the skys is a very tough job, as he can almost always run away from you.

in good hands the p51 is downright a very hard plane to kill, then again same can be said of anything which they just will not let you get anywhere near them without fertilizing the landscape with your wreckage

[T}{OR]

^^ Good post.

The biggest problem with .50s is to learn how to use them most effectively. What would undoubtedly make them more effective is if we had an option to set individual convergence (like in CloD). That would spread them out and more easily hurt anyone on the receiving end.

This is where I think, P-47 with its 8x.50 cals has an advantage. By pressing just your guns trigger you will fire only 2 pairs, to fire the other two you need to press your cannons trigger. Logic implies that different convergence for guns and cannons gives you different settings for each 2 pairs of .50. I need to test this in the game, but I am pretty sure this is the case.

Back to P-51. In order to maximize their efficiency you really need to fire in the ideal convergence range (as I demonstrated in the video). Best way of teaching yourself that is by just loading up QMB and trying to strafe soft targets on the ground. Soon you will learn not to fire too soon or too late.


Done a few sorties online lately and IIRC there was an P-51 FM change in one of the patches by TD? I had to change the way I fly to get the most out of the plane. Here is what I would recommend for 4.11.1, for COMBAT operations:

• Keep the radiator on AUTO, no need to touch it at all.
• Trim for +500 km/h IAS: RESET then apply 8 clicks of right rudder and 14 clicks of nose down elevators.
• Keep an eye on your manifold pressure, about 55" is just what is needed for COMBAT operations below 4000m. Above that you will need 100% power or more to maintain 55", especially in the range where the blower switches to high.
• Propeller pitch below 4000m is best set on 90-95. For steep climbing when speed drops below 400 km/h IAS use 100 PP.
• The same procedure goes if you're diving on someone or running away. Use 95-100 PP for the initial part of the dive while you reach 500 km/h IAS - then drop to 60-70 PP and observe Mustangs insane acceleration that no piston powered plane can match (apart from Dora if you started with same E levels).
• If running away / chasing a fast contact (e.g. Ar-234), after you level out at about +800 km/h IAS remove 4 clicks of rudder (for total 4 clicks of right rudder) to keep the ball centered. Use 70-80 PP to maintain E and speed.
• At +650 km/h IAS be very careful not to lose wings. Especially if using 100 across the whole range of your controller.

With the above combat settings you can easily keep the plane above 500 km/h IAS at all times. Cruise settings of 50" and 2700 RPM (~ 80 Power / 80 PP) will get you far whilst saving fuel. When you're done perfecting in the D model, grab Mustang III.



EDIT: And always remember that 50% fuel is sufficient for 2h flight on full power. Never ever take more than 20-30%. Save fuel by using cruise settings. Drop tanks are just for show. With 30% you only need to check your fuel tank behind your left shoulder (in reality IIRC this one was drained first as it changed P-51s CoG drastically, perhaps another thing for TD to fix...).

[pandacat]

Originally Posted by T}{OR

^^ Good post.

The biggest problem with .50s is to learn how to use them most effectively. What would undoubtedly make them more effective is if we had an option to set individual convergence (like in CloD). That would spread them out and more easily hurt anyone on the receiving end.

This is where I think, P-47 with its 8x.50 cals has an advantage. By pressing just your guns trigger you will fire only 2 pairs, to fire the other two you need to press your cannons trigger. Logic implies that different convergence for guns and cannons gives you different settings for each 2 pairs of .50. I need to test this in the game, but I am pretty sure this is the case.

Back to P-51. In order to maximize their efficiency you really need to fire in the ideal convergence range (as I demonstrated in the video). Best way of teaching yourself that is by just loading up QMB and trying to strafe soft targets on the ground. Soon you will learn not to fire too soon or too late.


Done a few sorties online lately and IIRC there was an P-51 FM change in one of the patches by TD? I had to change the way I fly to get the most out of the plane. Here is what I would recommend for 4.11.1, for COMBAT operations:

• Keep the radiator on AUTO, no need to touch it at all.
• Trim for +500 km/h IAS: RESET then apply 8 clicks of right rudder and 14 clicks of nose down elevators.
• Keep an eye on your manifold pressure, about 55" is just what is needed for COMBAT operations below 4000m. Above that you will need 100% power or more to maintain 55", especially in the range where the blower switches to high.
• Propeller pitch below 4000m is best set on 90-95. For steep climbing when speed drops below 400 km/h IAS use 100 PP.
• The same procedure goes if you're diving on someone or running away. Use 95-100 PP for the initial part of the dive while you reach 500 km/h IAS - then drop to 60-70 PP and observe Mustangs insane acceleration that no piston powered plane can match (apart from Dora if you started with same E levels).
• If running away / chasing a fast contact (e.g. Ar-234), after you level out at about +800 km/h IAS remove 4 clicks of rudder (for total 4 clicks of right rudder) to keep the ball centered. Use 70-80 PP to maintain E and speed.
• At +650 km/h IAS be very careful not to lose wings. Especially if using 100 across the whole range of your controller.

With the above combat settings you can easily keep the plane above 500 km/h IAS at all times. Cruise settings of 50" and 2700 RPM (~ 80 Power / 80 PP) will get you far whilst saving fuel. When you're done perfecting in the D model, grab Mustang III.



EDIT: And always remember that 50% fuel is sufficient for 2h flight on full power. Never ever take more than 20-30%. Save fuel by using cruise settings. Drop tanks are just for show. With 30% you only need to check your fuel tank behind your left shoulder (in reality IIRC this one was drained first as it changed P-51s CoG drastically, perhaps another thing for TD to fix...).

Thor, thanks for all the tips. Most of what you said is absolutely rite. I have tested these settings. Especially the radiator part. Just leave it on Auto, no need to play with it. My PP settings are a little different from yours. You can test mine to see if it's better.
1. level flight, >300 90%PP, >400 80%
2. Dive, initially 90% until I get to >400, reduce it 80% and above 600 down to 50%.
3. Climb, shallow at 90%, steep <300 100%
I set PP as bands on my throttle slider. Actually, anything lower than 50% PP is useless in this sim, so my lowest setting is 50%.

I have learned the lesson not to bang my throttle against the wall. It was cuz my throttle malfunctioned and I couldn't get to 110% that night, LOL. I mainly fly offline campagin. The problem is when you start off as a low rank flight officer, you don't get the right to change fuel load. At 100%, Stang is just a pig to fly. Later, I cheated by starting off as a major and set my starting fuel load at 25% and bring 2 drop tanks if it's a long patrol/flight. From my experience, convergence at 200 is better than 140 as described by Kling. For in-game 50cal, you need longer duration for your bursts. If the convergence 2 short, then you get 2 little time for your post shot manuver and often times end up colliding with the enemy's wreckage.

With regards to the aft fuesalage tank and COG issue, what Thor said is absolutely right for real Stang. If you take 2 identical p-51D's, one loaded with 25gal in each wing and the other 50gal in the fuesalage tank. The one with wing tank loaded will have very different and better performance curve than the fuesalage tank loaded one even though their weights r exactly the same. IL-2 as a game just took a simplified approch; it doesn't distinguish between wing tanks and fuesalage tank. I wonder, for those who have A2A P-51 or DCS P-51, if they can feel any difference.

[T}{OR]

You are welcome. Glad to see it works for you as well. Apart from 50 PP what you posted is almost the same as what I use. Now that you mention it, lowering to 50 PP in a dive when you cross the 550-600 km/h IAS mark might just give you that extra needed acceleration. I didn't test the new 4.11.1 Pony as much as I want to yet.

[K_Freddie]

I might add another tip on the P51 when BnZ'ing a FW.

What I do when attacked by a P51 is start a slow turn, tightening as he gets closer and at the moment he tries to line up a deflection shot, roll 90 pull down then roll another 180 a second later.
This move effectively puts him off target, forcing a flypast where he then often pulls up - he has no choice really.. or he'll be swiss cheese.
I'm then am applying flaps to lineup a quick passing shot.... most times there are no hits, but it's off putting to find your targets tracers whizzing by.
It's a great FW defensive tactic which I sort of worked out and applied a few times online with great success.. The P51 attackers then must have been experienced pilots, as they buggered off after 3 attempts

So when in a P51 be aware that you can be nailed on the flypass by a FW.

[pandacat]

Originally Posted by T}{OR

You are welcome. Glad to see it works for you as well. Apart from 50 PP what you posted is almost the same as what I use. Now that you mention it, lowering to 50 PP in a dive when you cross the 550-600 km/h IAS mark might just give you that extra needed acceleration. I didn't test the new 4.11.1 Pony as much as I want to yet.

Keep us posted on your new findings. I am eager to learn. One more quick thing. Once you set rudder trim(say 8 clicks) and after a few hard manuvers you are still at roughly the same speed, do you adjust it again? I often times find after a few turns the ball will go off center even though my speed doesn't change much. I just have this feeling the ball's movement is a bit wacky.

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by pandacat

Keep us posted on your new findings. I am eager to learn. One more quick thing. Once you set rudder trim(say 8 clicks) and after a few hard manuvers you are still at roughly the same speed, do you adjust it again? I often times find after a few turns the ball will go off center even though my speed doesn't change much. I just have this feeling the ball's movement is a bit wacky.

Will do. I usually do not touch trim unless I am diving. 8 clicks is ideal for ~450-500 km/h IAS and you should maintain this speed/setting throughout your combat maneuvers. But then again, if you are feeling extra diligent, adding 4 more clicks right to keep the ball centered should do it. I only touch rudder trim when diving.