4.11 - AI debugging

[Stig1207]

Originally Posted by IceFire

Dude, I honestly have no idea where the angry attitude is coming from. Let me make it clear then. What you suggest doesn't automatically make for a better experice with the A.I. Perhaps one thing is gained but at the loss of another behavior which is not inherently wrong IMHO. Target fixation did happen.

So, no idea what the problem is here, but I think there's a great opportunity to create something interesting with something that the AI already does.

Agree with Ice, no reason not to keep this discussion civil.

That being said, I also think that Lagarto has a good case in all calling this AI behavior a bug. After all, it's not one AI pilot becoming target fixated, it's the whole flight. While it's reasonable that the AI make mistakes, after all that 's only human, but if the silly byggers all make the same mistakes all the time they shouldn't be flying high-powered, heavily armed aircraft.

/Stig

[Lagarto]

Where the angry attitude is coming from? For years and years anyone reporting a bug was immediately attacked by a bunch of fans blindly infatuated with this game. Their 'noble' efforts to 'defend' the game were actually counterproductive because they slowed down its development. You can't fix or improve anything if you think everything is just perfect.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Lagarto

Where the angry attitude is coming from? For years and years anyone reporting a bug was immediately attacked by a bunch of fans blindly infatuated with this game. Their 'noble' efforts to 'defend' the game were actually counterproductive because they slowed down its development. You can't fix or improve anything if you think everything is just perfect.

This is entirely up to you then. I don't feel that I jumped on you but I did ask for you to think about the request. I even agreed with you that a change could be made but with a little more subtlety. Yet, you've continued to be hostile. I'll take it in stride.

I'm going to keep on challenging and making my own suggestions but please do not mistake it for any attitude on my part. This should and can be a civil discussion where an idea is formed, challenged, and forged into something constructive.

[FC99]

Originally Posted by Lagarto

Where the angry attitude is coming from? For years and years anyone reporting a bug was immediately attacked by a bunch of fans blindly infatuated with this game. Their 'noble' efforts to 'defend' the game were actually counterproductive because they slowed down its development. You can't fix or improve anything if you think everything is just perfect.

It's developers who are deciding what get fixed and what not. There is no reason to get angry just because somebody have different opinion than you. What you consider a bug might be a feature for someone else and I never saw AI in this game doing something that humans don't do too.

In case of chasing planes with dead engine that will be fixed to some extent in 4.12. I will not completely remove the possibility for AI to attack harmless planes.

[Lagarto]

FC99, it's not a different opinion but patronizing attitude of some here that angers me. When you say, this is a bug, that is a feature, I believe you, you know these things inside out. Some people don't. They just want to sound smart, as if they were some self-proclaimed mouthpiece of the DT. Anyway, thank you for looking into the 'dead engine issue'.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Lagarto

FC99, it's not a different opinion but patronizing attitude of some here that angers me. When you say, this is a bug, that is a feature, I believe you, you know these things inside out. Some people don't. They just want to sound smart, as if they were some self-proclaimed mouthpiece of the DT. Anyway, thank you for looking into the 'dead engine issue'.

I'm sorry if you think I sound patronizing. That's not the idea. The idea is to discuss whatever ideas people come up with (mine included). No one is an island.

I'm glad that FC99 is looking into it. Some great work has already been done on the AI... I'm sure it'll be even better in 4.12.

[IceFire]

FC99: Have you looked into at all the behavior of aircraft that should either be falling into escort formation OR into flight formation?

I have no problem with bombers getting into a flight formation (using the select option on waypoints) but with fighters it seems hit and miss. Sometimes they will get into escort and fly above (and often fall behind) and sometimes they will line up in a flight formation and do what they should be doing.

The behavior has definitely changed over the years. Sometimes without rhyme or reason from my perspective. Any tips or thoughts?

[JtD]

Lagarto, I think you're barking up the wrong tree. And as FC99 points out, for no reason. One users statement is not going to be ignored just because another user adds a couple of cents.

[FC99]

Originally Posted by IceFire

FC99: Have you looked into at all the behavior of aircraft that should either be falling into escort formation OR into flight formation?

I have no problem with bombers getting into a flight formation (using the select option on waypoints) but with fighters it seems hit and miss. Sometimes they will get into escort and fly above (and often fall behind) and sometimes they will line up in a flight formation and do what they should be doing.

The behavior has definitely changed over the years. Sometimes without rhyme or reason from my perspective. Any tips or thoughts?

I'm not sure that you can get fighters into formation unless they carry bombs or rockets. If they are clean they will get into "Escort" mode.

AFAICS that part of the code was same in 4.02 too so if things were different in the past that must be long ago.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by Stig1207

Agree with Ice, no reason not to keep this discussion civil.

That being said, I also think that Lagarto has a good case in all calling this AI behavior a bug. After all, it's not one AI pilot becoming target fixated, it's the whole flight. While it's reasonable that the AI make mistakes, after all that 's only human, but if the silly byggers all make the same mistakes all the time they shouldn't be flying high-powered, heavily armed aircraft.

/Stig

Absolutely right Stig. I even suggested that some sort of update to how it works so that some AI do become fixated while others are smarter or more disciplined. The AI could roll some kind of percentage probability for being fixated depending on skill level.

It's insane that Ace AI would do the same as a rookie.