the stuff dreams are made of!!!

[zapatista]

nice setup in the german video, thx for posting it eckhart

but in il2 you'd have to fly in the no cockpit view, and change the frame structure at the top of his aircraft simulator to represent the correct cockpit skeleton so you dont fly a spitfire aircraft with a 190 cockpit structure (instrument pannel wouldnt matter much, having generic ones for all aircraft models would work fine)

what display is he using in the background, looks like a standard projector with a flat screen ?

add a curved screen for the projector and track-ir, it'be an amazing experience !

whats the cost on his cockpit's (and does that include all gauges and software to control/interface them in fsX ?), the stick is expensive but less then other high end replicas from other manufacturers (like the spitfire stick and throttle for ex)

[Snuff_Pidgeon]

Wow! thanks for the links Eckhart.

[bolox]

looks really nice and i'm really pleased that a 'major' distributor is stocking this kind of stuff- simware have always been very good on my orders. good times ahead for us controller freaks

been looking at the specs of the stick and the one on sale at simware is potentiometer equipped version- hall sensor version is available according to maunfacturers website but don't have a price for it. that would help explain some of the price difference.

the other difference is i presume, on the basis of no info to the contrary, that this stick has a sprung centre type movement like a 'traditional' joystick unlike tarmac's 'no return to centre' system. dampers are more expensive than springs.

to my limited r/l flying experience the tarmac sticks resistance creates a good impression of inertia in r/l controls and feels quite similar to glider flight.
subjective opinion

if i didn't already have a tarmac stick i would seriously be considering this- the cheaper price and dealing with an established distributor are definite plus points.

competition and choice can only be a good thing and might even stimulate one of the 'majors' to produce something.

realistic pits are becoming easier to assemble parts for now-Oleg, please note this trend for SOW

[Windturbin]

Oleg, please note this trend for SOW

HEAR, HEAR

[JudgeMingus]

One difference I notice is that the SimWare 'grip' section is mostly a single moulded piece, whereas the Tarmac Aces stick is constructed from mutliple components as the original was (this is easiest to see with the additional thumb button on the left side of the grip).

They are both waaaaaay too expensive for me, though.

[C6_Trollbug]

@Eckhart : as I told it to you last time , you can order on our website : other American simmers have done this yet, why shouldn't you ?

The stick sold on Simware isn't carried out by Tarmac Aces.
Just have a close look on it : it's a grip which try to be alike to a KG13 , not more .

The angle between the grip and the tube is not right.
The top of the grip hasn't the shape of a KG13 . It's nearer of a KG12 , but not exactly.
The trigger is very very simplified ...
Have a close look on the link between the grip and the release button , on the left side of the grip : it's awful.
The measurements of the identification plate aren't right , and it's only a print on the plastic , not a screen-printed aluminium plate , cold-riveted , as the original (and ours)
The length from the floor to the top of the grip isn't realistic .

In conclusion : it's difficult to believe that the person who made this grip ever had in hands a real KG13 . It's a bad copy , perhaps inspired by pictures.

The mechanic of this stick is obviously a traction springs equipped gimbals . I made it myself for my Cougar , two years ago .
Cost : 30 euros , with the micro bearings , the springs and the cermet potentiometers .

Any potentiometer , even the better one , wear out . It's electronical datas will decrease until you'll have to change it .

The Hall Effect sensors can't wear out , and it's electronical datas (way more precise than the better potentiometer) , will always stay at the best level .


Mr Schmid contacted us last year . He wanted us to equip his "cockpit". We didn't gave him an affirmative response : the level of detail of his cockpit was too low , absolutely not a replica level.
So he made himself his "grip looking like a KG13" , at the same level of detail of his cockpit...

Everyone makes it's choice .
Historical replicas , with the more accurate and long-lasting mechanism , or a joystick which vaguely looks like a real one .

We carry out active replicas , realized from the print of a real grip . Each part of our grips are realized like this . We doesn't alter any part to make it easier and cheaper to carry out . We made the choice to carry out "historically correct grips". It can't be cheap , we assume it . (and remember , we don't earn a penny on our grips : you have in hand a grip wich worth what you paid for it) (we do that stuff because we are passionated simmers : if we would have to feed our childrens by selling 800 euros joysticks ..... OOCH !!! )

If you want good pictures of real KG13 , have a look here :
http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/
It's as gold mine !

Go on our webpage : there is a new grip online , the third one which can be fitted on our Universal Base.
There are some very good news too for the Spitfire , Hurricane and Tempest addicts ...

Good flight !

Trollbug

[Eckhart]

Thanks Trollbug. Straight to the point and good discussion.

As always in life when something is cheaper there is usually some hidden drawback ( I know about bad quality from the Cougar times)

Now there are some additional questions. The LW rudder which can be seen in the video on the Tarmac website (http://www.valiant-studio.eu/tarmac/...ies_action.php) is not listed in the hangar stock price list. Will it become available soon?

Can you give us some information about the ongoing projects concerning a Tempest or Spitfire fighterstick? Will those fit to the universal base?

Do you work on some forcefeedback module? It would be so great to get some better feedback about the airflow under the wings ( just dreaming).

How far are you advanced with your own cockpit replica?

On a personal note, I was promised to get contacted by one of your sales reps....( I have to hurry before my wife finds out about that....)


In any case, many thanks for making this a really high quality stick (I have enough of the Cougar or Logitech cr#p!)


Cheers,

Eckhart

[Boandlgramer]

Dear Trollburg

I am "Mister'" Schmid.
I see no reason for your reaction .

When I got emails where people asked me about our stick , if it is a replica, I always answering : """""""""""""No it´s not.
If you want a Replica go for the Tarmac Aces Stick. According to their homepage, they produce 100 % Replicas."""""""""""""""""""".


I don´t want to have a word-fight with someone here, I am too friendly for that.

I like our stick and our cockpits as well. They are not too expensive.

However. Even after your arrogant comments, I wish you a great success with your products.

Boandl

[Boandlgramer]

....and about Halleffect sensors.
Even OUR "Steuerknüppel" is available with halleffect sensors.

[C6_Trollbug]

Mister Schmid ,
I never wanted to be arrogant . I just wanted to tick off the differences between the Tarmac Aces KG13 and yours , to avoid confusion . I apologize if I hurted you .

@Eckhart :
Our parallelogram rudder will be available at mid-august , with optional pedals :Luftwaffe , RAF , or Jaguar .
The "spade grip" (the grip which equipped Hurricanes , Spitfires, Tempest , Typhoon , early Meteors , and early Vampires) will obviously fit on the Universal Base , but it will also fit on the new shifted axis Base.
We're working on a Force Feedback module which could be fitted under the Universal Base , but there's a lot of work until we can carry it out ....

Trollbug