Fultures!

[zapatista]

Originally Posted by Warhound

Going to refrain from trying to answer posts in here seriously , but watch this from 10.50 to 11.33 (or watch all of it..it's from an interesting 20 episode series).
Base suppression existed from the very start of the war till the end.

you should watch that video a bit more closely and pay attention to the commentator, because it says exactly the opposite of what you seem to believe

it describes the brittish early part of the war as having a "highly accurate early warning system" with "accurate up to the minute information on enemy plane activity". it also just speaks of organized bombing raids on enemy airfields, but it doesnt say anything about having perpetually little swarms of lone nazi fighter planes camping over undefended brittish airfields as a war strategy, and them then have them shoot up any allied plane that tries to taxi. and all this without a single AA gun going off, no sirens, no warning calls at the brittish base ?

the legitimate complaint by the OP refers to that last scenario, not planned and organized raids by multiple enemy planes on a brittish airfield to try and shut it down for a number of days, or even the lone suicidal enemy fighter trying his luck by doing a quick strafing run at an enemy airfield while on his way home. if a lone fighter tried this, he would be met with some amount of AA and quickly warning sirens/signals would go off at the airfield. and if he was camping over an enemy airfield (not really possible in real life) he would be quickly spotted and reported to be present (and attract some nearby friendly fighters to dislodge him), none of which is the case on the ATAG server

the issue is to presumably try and recreate a historical setting as much as possible, not reward with points an air-quake type behavior that detracts from this. its also not an issue about "making players do what somebody else wants", its about creating a setting on a server that mimics historical events, so most players will gravitate to more realistic gameplay styles (and let the odd fool who wants to try and camp over an airfield be, flak will normally take care of him soon enough (and so would other nearby friendly fighters that get vectored to him)

right now on ATAG its the opposite, it creates undefended forward airfields with no warning systems, and rewards point whores for creating an air quake "anti new joiners" scenario.

[Warhound]

Originally Posted by zapatista

having perpetually little swarms of lone nazi fighter planes camping over undefended brittish airfields as a war strategy, and them then have them shoot up any allied plane that tries to taxi. and all this without a single AA gun going off, no sirens, no warning calls at the brittish base ?

the legitimate complaint by the OP refers to that last scenario, not planned and organized raids by multiple enemy planes on a brittish airfield to try and shut it down for a number of days, or even the lone suicidal enemy fighter trying his luck by doing a quick strafing run at an enemy airfield while on his way home. if a lone fighter tried this, he would be met with some amount of AA and quickly warning sirens/signals would go off at the airfield. and if he was camping over an enemy airfield (not really possible in real life) he would be quickly spotted and reported to be present (and attract some nearby friendly fighters to dislodge him), none of which is the case on the ATAG server
its about creating a setting on a server that mimics historical events, so most players will gravitate to more realistic gameplay styles (and let the odd fool who wants to try and camp over an airfield be, flak will normally take care of him soon enough (and so would other nearby friendly fighters that get vectored to him)

right now on ATAG its the opposite, it creates undefended forward airfields with no warning systems, and rewards point whores for creating an air quake "anti new joiners" scenario.

What on earth are you actually talking about?

-perpetually little swarms of lone nazi fighter planes camping over undefended brittish airfields

In my many hours on ATAG, most of the time there isn't a single 109 strafing grounded planes.
When flying red I mostly take off from Hawkinge or Littlestone, just because I can. And doing that I've maybe been strafed while taxiing or taking off 5 times.
Also, swarm = a great number (of insects or other small creatures) moving together: lone = being alone; without company or accompaniment; solitary; unaccompanied. So which is it?


-and all this without a single AA gun going off

Euhm whaaaat? If you spawn in you should look at the sky at times and listen to your headset/speakers. Because I sure do see lots and lots of black and grey smokepuffs all around the base when a enemy is near and even hear the AA guns firing en masse.


-no sirens

As has been explained to you in this very thread...Sirens don't function in the game (yet). So how exactly is this ATAG's fault?


-no warning calls

Again as has been said..get on Teamspeak and you will get loads of warnings, or be able to warn friendlies who then can avoid said airbase or come to your aid. If 50% of pilots bothered to use teamspeak this problem would be nonexistent.


- if he was camping over an enemy airfield (not really possible in real life) he would be quickly spotted and reported to be present (and attract some nearby friendly fighters to dislodge him), none of which is the case on the ATAG server

Hmm, vulchers do attract lots of attention and don't last long at all. They get chewed up by a combination of AA and Spitfires within minutes.


-and let the odd fool who wants to try and camp over an airfield be, flak will normally take care of him soon enough (and so would other nearby friendly fighters that get vectored to him)

Would you be willing to fly a 109(or a Spit over Pihen) 5 times and record your average time till death while circling below 1000m over an active airbase? Please report here with a video and show us how many hours it takes till you run out of fuel.


- rewards point whores for creating an air quake "anti new joiners" scenario.

Really so statwhores just want kills and don't care about dying repeatedly. In my experience statwhores are the ones who go into crazy diatrebes when they die by something they consider unfair.
And ATAG being "anti new joiners"? So that's why the players there happily respond to questions about vulching, CEM, navigation, gunnery, tactics and so forth. As well as ask newbies to join TS to walk them through their problems and spend hours getting them up to speed both on the server and their forums. Never knew I misunderstood the meaning of anti all my life, or maybe you are the one confused about it?


The RAF struggled with base attacks early on aswell and had to adapt.
If the players of this sim start working together, capping their airfields and using their radio (TS) the problem will become even smaller than it is allready.
Or you could add so much AA and AI fighter CAP till the mission runs at 3FPS even when you are in singleplayer.
I guess is the latter is the better solution of the two since it doesn't involve any active effort from the players and has no downsides?

[Wolf_Rider]

Originally Posted by Warhound

Also, swarm = a great number (of insects or other small creatures) moving together: lone = being alone; without company or accompaniment; solitary; unaccompanied. So which is it?

Swarm behaviour, or swarming, is a collective behaviour exhibited by animals of similar size which aggregate together, perhaps milling about the same spot or perhaps moving en masse or migrating in some direction. As a term, swarming is applied particularly to insects, but can also be applied to any other animal that exhibits swarm behaviour. The term flocking is usually used to refer specifically to swarm behaviour in birds, herding to refer to swarm behaviour in quadrupeds, shoaling or schooling to refer to swarm behaviour in fish. Phytoplankton also gather in huge swarms called blooms, although these organisms are algae and are not self propelled the way animals are. By extension, the term swarm is applied also to inanimate entities which exhibit parallel behaviours, as in a robot swarm, an earthquake swarm, or a swarm of stars.

From a more abstract point of view, swarm behaviour is the collective motion of a large number of self-propelled entities.[1] From the perspective of the mathematical modeller, it is an emergent behaviour arising from simple rules that are followed by individuals and does not involve any central coordination.

-Wiki

[ATAG_Doc]

As been said already the game has matured a lot since the last patch if we're in here complaining about tactics on one server rather than patch performance. Great job development team!

[SiThSpAwN]

I think all that has come of this thread is detail that us Red guys aren't doing as good a job as the blue guys, if they are holding air over our coastal air fields then we need to coordinate better.

If people have proven that even good coordination cannot clear people over our air fields, then politely ask the ATAG to look at the defenses over these bases. As far as defenses, I dont really see that as being an issue as I dont see anyone just calmly circling over these airfields, and I for one have launched from these airfields without incident, even when FLAK is bursting about.

As for Vulching as a play style? Only time I can seriously see it as an issue is if the sides are way lopsided in favor of the vulcher, but even then, they can only cover so many airfields. When the teams are even, its a tactic to take a strategic advantage over an area, if some people play this style with the soul purpose of padding their stats, well whatever turns their cranks I suppose. Every game/sim has a short coming that people will try to take advantage of, this is one for flight sims. It wont be going away anytime soon. So adapt.

And lastly, for those that would downplay the importance of quality servers like ATAG, spend some time setting up a dedicated server, even as a test for yourself, and add to it, set up a mission to go with that, get it all working, visible online and in working order. I think then you will see there is a lot of effort into what they give us, not to mention the extras like stats and conversions for tracks to give outside views. 1C has not made hosting a stable server the easiest thing (what is it with sims and the lack of quality dedicated server software anyways), I have messed with the dedicated server and got one up and running, its not that fun, and I cant imagine keeping it going 24/7.

[Untamo]

S!

I mostly fly blue, but have now couple of times gone to red side as blue had greater numbers. About a week ago on ATAG I was flying with couple of squad mates, we had no trouble of getting airborne from Hawkinge. Sure, we got in action right away, which was all good. No need for the long trip over the channel .. After clearing sky from most of the harassing 109s we got a bit alt and then took the fight bit further from the coast. Scratched a couple of incoming AI bombers while at it too.

[MB_Avro_UK]

Please allow me to retort...
















Best Regards,
MB_Avro.