SHOOTING at the OLYMPICS

[JG4_Helofly]

@ Outlaw

Why must it be a gun? Why not something less leathal? Have you ever seen the effect of OC spray? With a range of up to 5m, I don't see why this wouldn't work for "home defense".
Also most times, you won't have time to grab a weapon to defend yourself.
There is also the risk of injurie to other people living in the house. You don't know where your bullet is going to hit.You must keep in mind, that shooting requires skill. Especially in high stress situations and in the dark, most people will miss the target. The FBI had a statistic about hit percentage of police officers in firefights. over 70% of the bullets missed and that at close range (up to 7 meters).
That's why the protection is not garanteed and you might hit someone you don't want to hit.

I do not say that you shouldn't have anything to defend yourself, but a gun is not the way to go imo. There are better alternatives.

[ctec1]

Just curious, how accurate you think youre gonna be with that can of pepper spray in that same fire fight. No thanks, I'll keep my 40.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by JG4_Helofly

I do not say that you shouldn't have anything to defend yourself, but a gun is not the way to go imo. There are better alternatives.

I disagree with your, "...most times...", statement. I can reach a multitude of firearms in my home within a few seconds from nearly anywhere in it and I can do the same within my car.

Besides, if your argument is that you won't be able to retrieve your firearm you won't be able to retrieve something, "less lethal", either so you might as well just have a, "request theft" button, at the front door that restrains the occupants, disables any communication devices, and unlocks the doors for any would be attackers.

As far as the "less lethal" argument goes, that is just so ridiculous I can't even laugh. I want to be AS LETHAL AS I CAN. Why should an attacker have even the slightest chance of hurting me? Why is it his RIGHT to be able to attack me. And make no mistake, by not allowing me the power to destroy him in his tracks YOU ARE GRANTING HIM THE RIGHT. The fact that he may pay for it later will not influence his decision at all.

Regardless, there are thousands of cases where pepper spray has failed to stop attackers. Furthermore, HAVE YOU EVER REALLY THOUGHT ABOUT UNLOADING A CAN OF PEPPER SPRAY IN YOUR BEDROOM? I mean, really, you had better hope it will stop him because unless you're on the same drugs as your attacker it sure as hell will put you on the ground. Of course your A/C will eventually spread the cloud to the rest of the house so you have that to look forward to.

Don't even mention a taser unless you want to pit your hand to hand skills against the kind of person who would break into your house.

As an IDPA and IPSC competitor I am fully aware of the skill level shooting requires.

There are several types of frangible home defense rounds that will not penetrate an interior wall with significant energy remaining.

You are correct in that protection is never guaranteed (and I never said such) but I CAN guarantee you that, "less lethal", only translates to, "less protection". While it is true that there is always the possibility of unintended injuries and, while I am sure it has happened, I have never read of a single one in the hundreds of accounts of defensive firearm use I've read.

--Outlaw.

[JG4_Helofly]

So pepper spray doesn't work? I work with these sprays and used it several times. The effect is immediate.
If the criminal is drugged and the spray does not affect him, well, then a bullet in a non vital area won't stop him either. That's were we come to skill again. Most people won't be able to hit a vital area under stress and in the dark. So I disagree when you say that less lethal weapons are less protection.

An other problem is, that many people will also shoot criminals who "just" want to steal money in their houses. That's a problem. I can imagine that a scared person who doesn't have training, will fire at every person which is not supposed to be in his house.
Also there is a great chance of shooting because of the stress. You know the problem: finger on the trigger and before you know it the gun fires. Especially single action pistols with a light trigger pull.

Imo a gun is a to complicated system for an untrained individual. And therefore dangerous for him and others.

[nearmiss]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=84IZxWvOWWY

I love happy endings!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_Yqk...eature=related

[AndyJWest]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

I love happy endings!

Nearmiss, you are sick in the head. A boy gets killed on his 19th birthday, and it is a 'happy ending'?

You are utterly unfit to be a moderator here. It is a disgrace that 1C allow you to abuse their forums to promote a particularly obnoxious brand of right-wing politics in a forum that is supposedly 'non-political' Still, with an election due in the US, you have to get your deranged crap in quick, don't you?

Is it any wonder that this forum is riddled with trolls and crackpots, when the moderators are the biggest pushers of it?

[swiss]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Nearmiss, you are sick in the head. A boy gets killed on his 19th birthday, and it is a 'happy ending'?

You are utterly unfit to be a moderator here. It is a disgrace that 1C allow you to abuse their forums to promote a particularly obnoxious brand of right-wing politics in a forum that is supposedly 'non-political' Still, with an election due in the US, you have to get your deranged crap in quick, don't you?

Is it any wonder that this forum is riddled with trolls and crackpots, when the moderators are the biggest pushers of it?

LOL!
You're really cute - or maybe completely insane.

Some crackpot robber with a gun got shot, that's pretty much exactly what he deserved.

[Bewolf]

Originally Posted by swiss

LOL!
You're really cute - or maybe completely insane.

Some crackpot robber with a gun got shot, that's pretty much exactly what he deserved.

With 19, yeeeeah. I seriously do not want to live in your world.

[Hood]

Originally Posted by swiss

LOL!
You're really cute - or maybe completely insane.

Some crackpot robber with a gun got shot, that's pretty much exactly what he deserved.

I guess life in the US is cheaper than I thought. Not a thought as to the "why". I wonder if the robber could have got the gun if guns weren't allowed.

I also wonder what the stats are for CC killings versus gun murders, or how many lives have been saved by CC people shooting someone compared to how many lost by pretty much any gun incident. I'd guess that gun crime is ahead by a very long way.

I'm still trying to get my head round the celebration of a 19 year old being shot; regardless of the situation it's sad all round.

Hood

[kammo]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

Nearmiss, you are sick in the head. A boy gets killed on his 19th birthday, and it is a 'happy ending'?

You are utterly unfit to be a moderator here. It is a disgrace that 1C allow you to abuse their forums to promote a particularly obnoxious brand of right-wing politics in a forum that is supposedly 'non-political' ?

+1

Nearmisses comment on this issue (it started about Olympic sport event and now we are celebrating a killing) is a perfect example how NOT to take part in the discussion when you are a moderator. This is a sad place.