Will SoW be boring and superficial?

[Spurs1]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

For me, the best sim would be a hybrid between IL2 and European Air War. If you can combine the FM/DM/graphics from IL2 and the immersion factor from EAW, you'll have a real blockbuster on your hands. EAW is an old game by today's standards but it has a lot of things i'd like to see in a future project from Oleg.

Another thing is the menu graphics in most of the old sims. For example, there was a briefing room/tent with the map, then you clicked somewhere on the edge of the screen to go to the hangar where you could see some planes being prepared, then exit the hangar to fly. These don't even have to be real 3D images, just some static screens showing representative areas in an airfield. The top aces chalkboard in Red Baron, the Dora running engine checks in the background in EAW, your squadron roster showing your AI wingmen's kills and who is missing/killed/captured, all of these things add a lot to making you feel you are actually there and not in front of a computer monitor in your room.

having just started to play IL2 and having loved playing EAW, I was thinking the same thing, would be great to have a hybrid of the two. While some things are better for sure in IL2, EAW has some things that would make IL2 better and make you feel you are actually there

briefing room and the chatter, the hanger, even seeing the medals/bars you have been awarded and a tune playing are some of the things I liked about EAW etc

it is just a line saying you have received a medal in IL2, bit boring and hardly exciting.

would like to see you receive promotions too something even EAW didn't have, rather than just saying you have been promoted.

anything to make you feel like you actually there is a BIG plus

SoW could go even further and show litle video clips of you receiving medals/promotions, that would be fantastic, when it comes to giving a game marks out of 10, that is what could make the difference between a 9 or 10, it would for me, its the extras that count

though I didn't play Jane's WW2 Fighters much ( had problems ), that also had extras that were great, showing the stats and clips of planes etc

in regard to the actual thread ideas, I also think it's a good idea to have a variety of missions, of course combat would make up most of the missions, but some different missions would add to the game for sure

[Tata]

I liked very much video clips in Falcon3.0 when you were captured or succesfuly resqued, just taxiing while mission is loading... Or just stedy painted screens like in B-17. Some kinde of any mix of such situation scenes adding immersion very much. And realy i am missing that in IL-2. Would be very good to improve this part of game in SoW serie. Also i think it will add some ratings and also sales.

[Blackdog_kt]

Older games had a lot of extras, because processing power was low and they couldn't show off with the ingame engine. For example, if i'm not mistaken there were promotion and medal animations in Red Baron but not in Red Baron II.

It seems that while games became more realistic looking during the actual gameplay, a lot of things that were there to spice things up got omitted. The best extras in Dynamix games (red baron, aces of the pacific, aces over europe) was the menu screens detailing squadron life, the progress in the front lines, the top aces chart, the ability to request a transfer, 1 on 1 duels with an ace and painting your biplane to the color of your choice.

In EAW, the best thing was the believable AI. Sure, IL2 might have a more advanced AI but they do some pretty silly things every now and then. In EAW i even saw that wingmen of different skill levels were also different in how they they followed me. A novice would lose track of you and fall back sometimes in the heat of the action and rejoin a while later, while a veteran would be glued to you while you were going through maneuvers.

The best thing however when interacting with the AI was the detailed chatter, straight out of a movie, and the fact that you could issue some really complex orders that actually worked 90% of the time. I had a USAAF career going on starting as a lowly lieutenant and getting promoted to captain just as the first mustangs got delivered.

Let me tell you, there's nothing better for a flight leader in an offline campaign to split your 12-plane squad into 3 different flights around the bombers, send one into an aggressive sweep ahead, have another one in close escort and take your last flight of 4 ponies in top cover duty where you can monitor the whole affair. The AI wingmen followed orders so well that in many occasions i would go high and direct them towards totally annihilating the opposition, long after i had expended my ammunition (especially when intercepting bombers in a 190, a lot of times we could wipe out an entire box of 32 bombers).

[Feathered_IV]

Another aspect that would greatly benefit offline play is a kind of Renown System. Something like what is available in Silent Hunter 3, which btw gracefully managed to avoid the corny CFS3 roleplaying element.

At the moment in the Il-2 series, you fly missions and get kills and rise up the ranks. But it is meaningless in any broader sense, other than whether you get to fly at the back of a formation, or whether you fly at the front. Your success or failure has no other significance.

What if as a neophyte pilot in SoW your aircraft is the war-weary crate that no one else wants?

What if as you gain experience and become an asset to the unit you get entrusted with a better aircraft? How would that be?

What about if you rise to the rank of Flight, or even Squadron Leader? Higher rank means higher responsibility. Perhaps the amount of work you would be expected to do in between missions will become even greater. You would need to manage your pilots and personnel. Allocate your flights, request replacements, and give commendations. Instead of just gawping at the briefing screen before a mission, what if you could actually issue orders to your pilots before the mission begins? You could assign your pilots objectives, waypoints, altitude and strategies. How would that suit you?

And what if you became an ace? A real experten? You would have your pick of the ground personnel. Your aircraft would be top of the line. Your renown would ensure that new aircraft and equipment would flow in. Requests for reassignment or replacements would be looked on favourably by Command. Experienced pilots would request transfers to your unit....

Honestly, am I reaching for the effing stars here???

[x__CRASH__x]

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

There has to be more to this genre than, fly to waypoint and shoot stuff down. Or fly to waypoint and drop some bombs. There has to be.

You sound like you have never flown online. The reason I have flown this sim since it came out was because of the online experience. All the facets of it have kept my interest. Most recently, within the last year, I have started flying an online war campaign. I get a career, and I get orders, and I have a mission to which if I fail, the team as a whole suffers. It differs from offline because in offline AI don't offer the same sort of realism to the opponent.

Fly online my friend, and you will see a whole new world. If you have flown online (Which you probably have, but I suspect it's coops) then try a running server which meets your fancy.

[Feathered_IV]

I have flown online for years. I will grant you that the online-war scenarios have more available options than single player and single mission servers. But that is exactly my point. It only serves to illustrate how lacking the mission-based server and single player experience is. It is not constructive to just say, Ah well, fly AW's then.

Yes, there is fun to be had. Yes, it get that. There is a level of immersion. I get that too. But it needs to be taken up to the next level. Honestly, am I the only one who can understand this?

[leitmotiv]

I understand your position 100% F_IV---you want a complete experience---boom, man management, and bureaucracy. Most people are in these "flight simulator" games for the boom.

My hope is that the SOW system is going to be far more realistic than that to which we are used with IL-2: Radar night fighters, night bombing with sophisticated weapons (flares, target markers, Gee, X/Y-Gerät, etc), and so on.

[virre89]

Well thats what sims are about, it's hard to compare to reality i don't think any pilot found any REAL excitement fighting for their lives in deadly dogfights.

A flight sim is a flight sim and should be mainly focused on combat being realistic, we and everyone who play theese combat sims won't be tierd of fighting and flying since it's what its all about.

And with the new engine it will be more realistic than ever.
But i agree on that more factors could play a bigger roll , still it dosn't matter for me.

[Feathered_IV]

Originally Posted by virre89

But i agree on that more factors could play a bigger roll , still it dosn't matter for me.

Sheesh! Alright then. For the benefit of online players who have neither the imagination, nor the ambition to think of anything beyond what we have now, I'll spoon feed you another concept.

Working Radar Control in Online Play:


You log on to an SoW server and join the game. A mission is already in progress. On the briefing map, you can see that there are plots all over the board.

You select RAF and choose a Spitfire flying out of Hornchurch. The server auto-generates you the callsign Baker, Blue Three.

Entering the game, you taxi out of your revetment and scramble immediately. Climbing hard, en-route for Dover you ask control for an intercept vector. You key in the commands for this (promising yourself you will get around to sorting out the voice activation system one day soon. Everybody says it's amazing).

You key in: Tab> 1> 3> 2. "Hello Control> This is Baker Blue three> Requesting vector."
Using voice samples similar to those in the old Il-2, the AI controller replies, "Hello Baker Blue three. Steer 160. Bandits inbound at angels zero. Range 40 miles. Over" The AI controller has appointed you a "channel" based on your location on the map. Not everybody hears the same control messages, thus avoiding clutter. A pair of Hurricanes nearby have heard this however, and change course to intercept.

"Hello Baker Blue Three. This is control. Are you recieving me? Over."

Ah whoops! Unlike the Il-2 series, this controller actually requires a response to communications. If you do not respond to calls he will keep calling you, before finally giving you up as lost.
You key in: Tab> 1> 3> 6. "This is Baker Blue Three. Received and understood."

Minutes later, speeding across the feilds of Kent, you key in a request for an update from control.
"Hello Baker Blue three. Steer 160. Contact faint. Bandits at angels zero. Range 20 miles. Over"
They are holding course then. Twenty miles would put them just north of New Romney...

Suddenly the AI control breaks in:
"Hello Baker Blue three. Bandits now heading two zero. Steer oh seven oh. Buster!"

You acknowledge and open the throttle wide, swinging onto the new heading. Your heart skips a beat as two Hurricanes flash across your nose.

"Hello Baker Blue three. This is control. You are right on top of them."
You dip your wing. Can't see a bloody thing. No, wait...there they are! Three fast moving shapes. Darting across the town of Ashford. Rooftop height. Me110's from Erpro-210, making a run for Biggin Hill. You key in the last call - a tallyho to Control. Saftey catches off. Gunsight on. As you half roll into the dive, the gunner of the rearmost 110 is already firing......

[virre89]

Ye sounds like you want more realistic communication and navigation.
Why not i'd love that as well, but what i was reffering to with more other realistic aspects such as turbulens, winds and anything a pilot could be exposed for.

But for things like walking around the airfield that i've seen players hoping for , i hope god sake not i don't want OLEG and his team putting any effort into such things , please mainly focus on making a flight sim not anythin else, i admit that it would be cool but it's nothing neccssary and should have very low priority.