making CloD a success

[csThor]

The difference is simple: Bliss sees a battlefield as a fluid environment with surprise developments and multiple time scales whereas the fans of the old Coop format essentially want a team-based "Meet in the middle and let's have it out there". That has a lot more similarities to a sports match with a level field and a defined starting point, though.

I doubt we will see a Coop format in the way people are used to it. For that the basic mission format of the current engine is too open and universal. It does no longer produce a self-containing "sandbox" for that one mission but provides the basic characteristics of a dedicated server for both offline and online. Changing that back to a "canned format" looks like a very tall order in my uninformed eyes.

[JG5_emil]

Oh yes I can just see it...The Luftwaffe take off to fly to their pre designated target and then decide to split up and fly 50 ft off the deck over the enemy airfield until they are all shot down. That's pretty much what happens on a DF server because people generally join them for a quick combat fix.

This is a ludicrous argument. Just because you can fly as you would on a coop in a DF server doesn't make it a coop. More functionality is going to attract more people in from IL2 and other sims. If people want COOPS (and they do) then give it to them. The more people that are playing CLOD the more everyone benefits. What do you think people do when they aren't waiting for a COOP? Yes they join a DF server.

Don't get me wrong as DF servers go ATAG is great (not great ping for me in the UK) but it isn't a COOP and I can't see it as more realistic either. On numerous occasions I fly around at 6k looking for targets and in the end just like everyone else I get bored and go and hover over Hawkinge where I know nearly everyone else is. Sometimes I escort a bomber formation and if I am lucky I see a single RAF aircraft come to intercept. The reason for this is because a DF server has the freedom to do what you want so that is what people do. I am yet to see coordinated battles at altitude over a 20-30 bomber formation in fact I am yet to see more than 2 RAF aircraft flying together at altitude (the same applies to the LW).

The point of a COOP is to simulate an aerial battle using the limited resources of everyones CPU and the limited number of people that can join. This way you get the feeling of being part of the big battle and you guarantee that everyone gets to feel like they were a part of it. The map is way too big for 50 people to be scattered to the winds.

P.S RE the Banks COOP Lobby. You can't have everyone chose their own load outs unfortunately. We tested it and it does work pretty well but the loadout issue is a problem especially for the RAF pilots. Hoping to get some time off work to spend some more time on it.

[ATAG_Bliss]

@ Emil - But the problems you are describing is because of the game. Twins couldn't fly in formation until a week ago - that eliminates coordinated bomber attacks. If fighters even flew in close proximity to a Ju88 for instance you had a 90% chance of a CTD.

The bombsights were bugged so people flew on the deck. The flak has no difficulty setting to hinder people flying that low as well.

This is all slowly changing as the game gets fixed. If you haven't seen multiple people all escorted up in the past week then we haven't been on. We've had 12 all in formation since the hotfix. And we regularly fly together in a group (not 1's and 2's) as you describe.

But again, people wanted a quick fix because they knew they'd crash. Things will drastically change when the game gets there and IMO it's already starting to.

[Ataros]

Originally Posted by JG5_emil

P.S RE the Banks COOP Lobby. You can't have everyone chose their own load outs unfortunately. We tested it and it does work pretty well but the loadout issue is a problem especially for the RAF pilots. Hoping to get some time off work to spend some more time on it.

Loadouts are defined in a mission by a mission maker. This is current game feature that prevents using not-historic loadouts in singleplayer and coops. Mission maker has to include the most popular loadout or historic one. Even when the devs make COOP GUI loadouts may stay unchangable for aircraft which you do not spawn at a spawnpoint. I do not remember if there is even a bugtracker issue open for this.

Originally Posted by JG5_emil

On numerous occasions I fly around at 6k looking for targets and in the end just like everyone else I get bored and go and hover over Hawkinge where I know nearly everyone else is. Sometimes I escort a bomber formation and if I am lucky I see a single RAF aircraft come to intercept. The reason for this is because a DF server has the freedom to do what you want so that is what people do. I am yet to see coordinated battles at altitude over a 20-30 bomber formation in fact I am yet to see more than 2 RAF aircraft flying together at altitude (the same applies to the LW).

I put down some ideas on how to avoid these problems on ATAG forums here http://theairtacticalassaultgroup.co...or-ATAG-server
I think this also needs more time or C# programmers to be involved.

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by csThor

I doubt we will see a Coop format in the way people are used to it. For that the basic mission format of the current engine is too open and universal. It does no longer produce a self-containing "sandbox" for that one mission but provides the basic characteristics of a dedicated server for both offline and online. Changing that back to a "canned format" looks like a very tall order in my uninformed eyes.

I think you hit the nail square on the head.

As I said in a previous post I have a feeling we'll see people - like today that design skins and give them away - missions built to extreme detail and very accurate sold and licensed for use on multi-player host. I may be wrong but I can see it happening. Remember no one saw the iPad 5-6 years ago either.

[JG52Uther]

Thousands of people in hundreds of squads flew coop online wars for ten years in il2.
CoD needs to get those people back.

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by JG52Uther

Thousands of people in hundreds of squads flew coop online wars for ten years in il2.
CoD needs to get those people back.

Spot on, Uther!
If coop haters believe that a "we don` need no stinking coops!" saying is going to get those people back then they are mistaking more than they can realise.

[addman]

Originally Posted by carguy_

Spot on, Uther!
If coop haters believe that a "we don` need no stinking coops!" saying is going to get those people back then they are mistaking more than they can realise.

I agree, actually these kinds of thread are most likely alienating both new and old players to CoD and I don't see the point of arguing. Maybe the ATAG guys can please explain to us why they feel the need to argue about this.

P.S I'd go as far to say that they are biased in this matter since their server(s) are dependent on the fact that people CAN'T play "traditional" coops.

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by addman

P.S I'd go as far to say that they are biased in this matter since their server(s) are dependent on the fact that people CAN'T play "traditional" coops.

Maybe they can`t realise that people are not ready for this. It needs to be a smooth transition. There was no need to invent the whole thing again from the start (sorry, I know this have been repeated many times before) If the new GUI provides more options then we`re both winners, although there is trouble running traditional coops.

I agree with Bliss that the 3rd party needs to get an opportunity to make it work, but some of us anticipated this already coming with CloD. If not exactly the same coops, then the same foundation expanded with new features. Now it seems that those people don`t have too many options when wanting to fly online at this moment.

Also I do not get the impression that traditional coop fans need to argue about this. IMO the aim is in bringing back the IL2 online experience.

[ATAG_Bliss]

Why does people think this is a for or against argument? I think the more online options we have the better.

The only thing I'm saying and have been saying all along is that COOPs are entirely possible RIGHT NOW. If you need the old style GUI to play a COOP, then I personally think people care more about the looks of the GUI then the flying part itself.

For the last time, I am not against anyone having COOPs, but I'm 100% against people not taking the time to realize that this game is 100x more complex in almost every single way than old IL2 was. With that, making missions is also much more complex. There is a learning curve.

People forget that objective based missions didn't come from the FMB. They came from people that made 3rd party programs that made them entirely possible in a mouse click environment. (Here's your sign) 3rd party will be making the same type of stuff for DF/COOP worlds. There's already tidbits of info and work being done on both fronts. We've coded our own commander to make the DF servers work. It would be a mess without it. If you have patience this sort of thing will progress as the sim does.

But I'd appreciate people not putting words in my mouth.