how are these 109s turns 180 with out penalties?

[adonys]

I've started to fly again these weeks on ATAG, and:

I saw plenty of red bombers coming high over France from over the channel.

Flying high with 109 (4-5k) means you see nothing on the deck. not even at 1-2k. If you want to pick low targets, you have to either watch flak (which is rendered at longer distance than other things) or have someone fly low and inform you about them.

Actually, flying high is a BIG problem in Il2CoD, as from above 2-3 k you see nothing rendered on the ground, not even those big damn radar antennas, so, you have to actually come low to lock on your target, or dive blindly hoping for the best.

Also, I've constantly flew Stuka over England, at 3-4k, with no one intercepting me or bothering me in any way.

Regarding the flak, it haven't bothered me at all, not even in Stuka. Flak it is not a problem if you know how to fly against it: as soon as you enter a flak area, start using evasive maneuvers (lateral and most importantly vertical waves).

The worst thing about the ATAG atm is that no one coordinates their flights. NO ONE! Hopefully, Banks's DCE will provide a solid backbone for pilots to be tempted to do it!

Salute!

[ATAG_Doc]

Originally Posted by adonys

The worst thing about the ATAG atm is that no one coordinates their flights. NO ONE! Hopefully, Banks's DCE will provide a solid backbone for pilots to be tempted to do it!

Just because you are not coordinated you can't accuse the others of not being - I see it all the time. The guys on Red team have their act together. I don't think I've ever seen you on there - the stats page says you have been there 23 times.

What side do you fly mostly? If you are not on comms you wont coordinate at all and that is not anyone's fault.

[adonys]

Each time I'm logging in on ATAG I'm also logging in on ATAG's TS server. I'm playing Blue side only.

I haven't seen in these last couple of weeks any kind of coordinated activity (which is more than 2-3 players acting together), not from Blues, and neither from Reds.

[SlipBall]

Originally Posted by adonys

Each time I'm logging in on ATAG I'm also logging in on ATAG's TS server. I'm playing Blue side only.

I haven't seen in these last couple of weeks any kind of coordinated activity (which is more than 2-3 players acting together), not from Blues, and neither from Reds.

Did you take note of how many total flyer's at the time...I have seen similar, but I attributed it to just the generally low number of people, say 10 each side...I know that they are popular site, but greater numbers are probably after my bed time

[ATAG_Snapper]

Originally Posted by adonys

Each time I'm logging in on ATAG I'm also logging in on ATAG's TS server. I'm playing Blue side only.

I haven't seen in these last couple of weeks any kind of coordinated activity (which is more than 2-3 players acting together), not from Blues, and neither from Reds.

Well, there ya go. If you haven't seen it, then it doesn't exist. Never happens. Bad luck, all 'round.

[Liz Lemon]

I wonder how many people realize that 15mph difference from stated performance was generally accepted in production aircraft.

I remember reading a report where production P-38s were performing 25mph below their specified performance and over 1000m below their stated max altitude. This happened to be a bit below the army air force cut off and the aircraft went to naca for testing. As it turned out the ducting for the turbo chargers had gaps of a few millimeters. These gaps were enough to make the air turn a bit too turbulent for the turbo-superchargers to ingest properly, and robbed the aircraft of a fairly significant amount of power. This resulted in a max speed and alt quite a bit lower then specified.

Now I'm not saying the FM of this game is completely borked or flawed... but to expect that the performance figures from test aircraft that were probably hand assembled and tested by the best pilots and flown in the best conditions possible... well the stated performance of such test shouldn't be taken as gospel when it comes to aircraft flying on the front lines. Small flaws in production, and the dings and dents that come with field operation can rob and aircraft of a surprising amount of top speed.

And this isn't even getting into the issues of pressure, temps and the like. Which also have a very large impact on an aircraft. Just ask anyone who has flown a cessna on a winter day and a hot, humid summer day.

[robtek]

Originally Posted by Liz Lemon

I wonder how many people realize that 15mph difference from stated performance was generally accepted in production aircraft.

I remember reading a report where production P-38s were performing 25mph below their specified performance and over 1000m below their stated max altitude. This happened to be a bit below the army air force cut off and the aircraft went to naca for testing. As it turned out the ducting for the turbo chargers had gaps of a few millimeters. These gaps were enough to make the air turn a bit too turbulent for the turbo-superchargers to ingest properly, and robbed the aircraft of a fairly significant amount of power. This resulted in a max speed and alt quite a bit lower then specified.

Now I'm not saying the FM of this game is completely borked or flawed... but to expect that the performance figures from test aircraft that were probably hand assembled and tested by the best pilots and flown in the best conditions possible... well the stated performance of such test shouldn't be taken as gospel when it comes to aircraft flying on the front lines. Small flaws in production, and the dings and dents that come with field operation can rob and aircraft of a surprising amount of top speed.

And this isn't even getting into the issues of pressure, temps and the like. Which also have a very large impact on an aircraft. Just ask anyone who has flown a cessna on a winter day and a hot, humid summer day.

As a matter of fact every! german plane leaving the production line was tested to meet the standards before it was delivered to the Luftwaffe.

Any plane not meeting the tolerances was sent back for refurbishing.

I believe the procedure became more lax in 1945, though.

I also believe that the allies had something similar.

[Robo.]

Originally Posted by robtek

As a matter of fact every! german plane leaving the production line was tested to meet the standards before it was delivered to the Luftwaffe.

Any plane not meeting the tolerances was sent back for refurbishing.

I believe the procedure became more lax in 1945, though.

I also believe that the allies had something similar.

Of course, robtek. But still, the tolerance for max speed at sea level for Bf 109E was 500kim/h +- 5%. That means that anything between 475 - 525km/h would do and they'd be concerned about that MINIUS more than a plus. Every aircraft delivered to the customer (air force) would be tested before accepting it, that's for sure.

[adonys]

Originally Posted by ATAG_Snapper

Well, there ya go. If you haven't seen it, then it doesn't exist. Never happens. Bad luck, all 'round.

Well, you're right! if I haven't seen it, doesn't meant there's none at all. But I am right too, because if I haven't seen it, it means it is not the normal case in there, but just a few exceptions I was unfortunate enough to not witness at all

[ATAG_Keller]

Originally Posted by adonys

Each time I'm logging in on ATAG I'm also logging in on ATAG's TS server. I'm playing Blue side only.

I haven't seen in these last couple of weeks any kind of coordinated activity (which is more than 2-3 players acting together), not from Blues, and neither from Reds.

I have seen teamwork like this many many times. The Blenheim jockeys are quite often flying in formations of 3 or 4 and sometimes with fighter escort. Rest assured that the Blue team would be doing this if it were possible.

As it stands right now, flying even two Blue bombers together will cause someone's launcher to crash long before they make it to target. Once we get the patch you'll see human piloted Ju-88 and He-111 formations of 4 or more all the time.