Oleg Maddox's Room #1

[Zorin]

Originally Posted by proton45

This is the kind of thing that bothers me when it comes the modding scene...

I think its cool that the AAA community is trying to maintain a level of quality with the mods they post, and some of the maps look pretty cool, but the "Holier than thou" attitude make me feel like a traitor for trying some of the mods, and I think thats b^!!Cr@p.

The hackers have opened up the game and "the genie is out of the bottle". Any argument that their may have been about weather or not the hack would ruin the on-line gaming community is over and the hackers have won...Its their world and the rest of us just have to "suck it up" and fly in it.

But thats not the end is it?... now Oleg has to "give the community something big" or the modding community won't see the point in buying "BoB SoW"? (part of me wonders if anyone could possibly be that dumb )

I guess that I'm just getting old because I don't understand anymore...I guess the "modders" are the hip young rule breakers who give the people what they really want (and get all the chicks), while Oleg is working away on the next great game, and is slowly loosing touch with the gamers and his place in the community?

Well good night nurse...

I said that it might lead to people not buying SoW right away. They already got a Spitfire I, early Emils and Hurricanes are in the works, plus three different BoB maps. That will keep people entertained.

Yet, if the initial sales of SoW will suffer from that and lead in turn to a rapid drop in price, I'm sure they'll easily sell quite a few copys, but that will only harm the reputation of the game and the loss of income could be crucial for the continuation of the series.

Don't forget, SoW:BoB will cost you at least 40€ + upgrading your system + nerves due to new bugs and fixes caused by the screaming community.

So, why not stay save and sound with a beautiful looking BoBish IL2?

[Kira]

Originally Posted by Vigilant

Well I would for one...

For me, it's not so much about the mod, it's about the content - BoB has always captured my imagination more than any other stage of WWII history.

So you can have your modded B17 I'll stick with what I'm interested in, thanks

Roll eyes is sarcastic

[Blackdog_kt]

I don't really know how big a deal this is and i'm undecided on the whole issue. Generally, when a developer is moving away from a title to focus on the next project, it makes sense to encourage the community to modify the game, as long as it's done with a good purpose. That's the problem here, ensuring that modding will not be used to exploit and cheat.
It's not as if they are modifying something that will receive any new expansions and patches, but the aim should be to make the game last longer, not turn it into a bunch of cheats that will drive everyone away.

As an example, take a look at another of Ubisoft's series, Silent Hunter 3 and 4. There is a very active modding community there and the best mods get compiled into super-mods that totally turn a 3 or 5 year old game around and make it worth playing for a couple of years more. People who worked with Oleg have worked on some of the mods and the results, at least in the visual departent, are stunning. I saw some screenshots of a 190 cockpit with higher resolution textures and it was like i was sitting in one in a museum.

I think Oleg knows this and that's why they already said they plan to increase 3rd party support for BoB. Why? Well, it's very simple. Even if your game stops being the best, there will be people who will keep it among the best in its category for free. Then, when someone for example wants to play the Grey Wolves Expansion pack, he will have to buy Silent Hunter 3 and the developers still get money from one of their older games, money that funds their next project. Everyone wins.

In the end, i think the attitude towards the IL2 modders is negative because they started doing it while IL2 is still awaiting a final patch. Oleg and team are striving for accuracy and they are rightfully worried that if loopholes are discovered, accuracy might get compromised.

However, i'm sure they see the benefits of a modding community and i guess they'll make BoB modable in a way that ensures it's not exploitable. I think that's their main issue, IL2 is essentially a "closed off" product, so to mod it you need to essentially "hack" it. If it was a product open to modding, people would not have to look for ways to "hack" it because they would have tools provided to them, hence there would be less danger of using the knowledge of the code for malicious purposes like cheating. If people can make the game they love better, without hacking it, then they'll have no reason to delve into the darker aspects of manipulating the code

For me, the best thing would be to have a detailed physics/world/game engine that will be able to "sense" an object in the game world and calculate the flight/damage model on its own. For example, let's say i model a spitfire Mkv in a 3d suite to make a channel front addon. I would then use a tool provided by the game (let's call it a properties calculator) that will calculate the damage and flight model, according to the 3d object i load in it and the rules of the game engine. Everyone will be able to load my Spit MkV in the properties calculator and see if it's accurate, so i can't cheat. If i give my favorite ride a 500HP non-historical advantage, other players will be able to see it and call me out on it. This way, people can add new things into the game, but the game engine reigns supreme over the properties of each object added.

Of course, this sounds like a lot of work and it probably is, but it's the only way i can think of that will allow seamless integration of new accurate/historical content into the game without the need for constant coordination with the developer team. Imagine for example if we could tell the properties calculator what kind of material is used on every part of the plane. You would load your 3d model in it, mark/select areas of the airframe and select the materials from a drop down menu, let's say aluminum alloys for wing spars, fabric covering for ailerons, steel for armor plates and so on.

[Oktoberfest]

Originally Posted by Blackdog_kt

I don't really know how big a deal this is and i'm undecided on the whole issue. Generally, when a developer is moving away from a title to focus on the next project, it makes sense to encourage the community to modify the game, as long as it's done with a good purpose. That's the problem here, ensuring that modding will not be used to exploit and cheat.
It's not as if they are modifying something that will receive any new expansions and patches, but the aim should be to make the game last longer, not turn it into a bunch of cheats that will drive everyone away.

As an example, take a look at another of Ubisoft's series, Silent Hunter 3 and 4. There is a very active modding community there and the best mods get compiled into super-mods that totally turn a 3 or 5 year old game around and make it worth playing for a couple of years more. People who worked with Oleg have worked on some of the mods and the results, at least in the visual departent, are stunning. I saw some screenshots of a 190 cockpit with higher resolution textures and it was like i was sitting in one in a museum.

I think Oleg knows this and that's why they already said they plan to increase 3rd party support for BoB. Why? Well, it's very simple. Even if your game stops being the best, there will be people who will keep it among the best in its category for free. Then, when someone for example wants to play the Grey Wolves Expansion pack, he will have to buy Silent Hunter 3 and the developers still get money from one of their older games, money that funds their next project. Everyone wins.

In the end, i think the attitude towards the IL2 modders is negative because they started doing it while IL2 is still awaiting a final patch. Oleg and team are striving for accuracy and they are rightfully worried that if loopholes are discovered, accuracy might get compromised.

However, i'm sure they see the benefits of a modding community and i guess they'll make BoB modable in a way that ensures it's not exploitable. I think that's their main issue, IL2 is essentially a "closed off" product, so to mod it you need to essentially "hack" it. If it was a product open to modding, people would not have to look for ways to "hack" it because they would have tools provided to them, hence there would be less danger of using the knowledge of the code for malicious purposes like cheating. If people can make the game they love better, without hacking it, then they'll have no reason to delve into the darker aspects of manipulating the code

For me, the best thing would be to have a detailed physics/world/game engine that will be able to "sense" an object in the game world and calculate the flight/damage model on its own. For example, let's say i model a spitfire Mkv in a 3d suite to make a channel front addon. I would then use a tool provided by the game (let's call it a properties calculator) that will calculate the damage and flight model, according to the 3d object i load in it and the rules of the game engine. Everyone will be able to load my Spit MkV in the properties calculator and see if it's accurate, so i can't cheat. If i give my favorite ride a 500HP non-historical advantage, other players will be able to see it and call me out on it. This way, people can add new things into the game, but the game engine reigns supreme over the properties of each object added.

Of course, this sounds like a lot of work and it probably is, but it's the only way i can think of that will allow seamless integration of new accurate/historical content into the game without the need for constant coordination with the developer team. Imagine for example if we could tell the properties calculator what kind of material is used on every part of the plane. You would load your 3d model in it, mark/select areas of the airframe and select the materials from a drop down menu, let's say aluminum alloys for wing spars, fabric covering for ailerons, steel for armor plates and so on.

+1

[Bobb4]

Originally Posted by Zorin

I said that it might lead to people not buying SoW right away. They already got a Spitfire I, early Emils and Hurricanes are in the works, plus three different BoB maps. That will keep people entertained.

Yet, if the initial sales of SoW will suffer from that and lead in turn to a rapid drop in price, I'm sure they'll easily sell quite a few copys, but that will only harm the reputation of the game and the loss of income could be crucial for the continuation of the series.

Don't forget, SoW:BoB will cost you at least 40€ + upgrading your system + nerves due to new bugs and fixes caused by the screaming community.

So, why not stay save and sound with a beautiful looking BoBish IL2?

Initially when IL2 was first released there was no flyable Stuka…
Go figure can you believe it?
This was modded after the game release and installed as a free add-on in patch 1.2 for IL2 by Oleg and crew.
So being community and mod friendly has always been a hallmark of IL2 and Oleg’s success.
The IL2 engine has been pushed as far as it can go. Its life span is over. Yes people can make BOB mods and they will do just great on online servers and in single player but once you experience SOW it will be like drinking three week old coffee, do-able if you have to but not something you will enjoy.
Storm of War is a complete product, not just a new flight sim engine that will bring more realism and immersion than ever before but attached to it are data and stats recorders, reworked network code and a 180 degree shift from what was IL2. Better damage and flight modeling are just a few of the improvements.
As Oleg has said you can man guns on the ground, tank tracks move, vehicles and troops are modeled. Even grass is modeled all animated effected by the wind.
So your argument that people will stay with what they know is very shortsighted. I joined the Il2 community many years ago and Storm of War is the Holy Grail, everyone has talked about it, dreamt about it and will buy it.
All flight sims will be compared to it for years to come. Il2 will die a death, not immediately but fast enough to make some shake their heads. Six years from now Il2 will be a distant memory available as a bargain basement game for non-cutting edge computers.
Remember SOW BoB is only the first of many incarnations of the series. A phased improvement of the engine is scheduled halfway through its life span. My guess is Theatre of War 2 will use the engine as well.
If you had been around in pre-Il2 day you would understand the difference SOW will make.

[Fossil-Goz]

Originally Posted by Bobb4

Initially when IL2 was first released there was no flyable Stuka…
Go figure can you believe it?
This was modded after the game release and installed as a free add-on in patch 1.2 for IL2 by Oleg and crew.
So being community and mod friendly has always been a hallmark of IL2 and Oleg’s success.
The IL2 engine has been pushed as far as it can go. Its life span is over. Yes people can make BOB mods and they will do just great on online servers and in single player but once you experience SOW it will be like drinking three week old coffee, do-able if you have to but not something you will enjoy.
Storm of War is a complete product, not just a new flight sim engine that will bring more realism and immersion than ever before but attached to it are data and stats recorders, reworked network code and a 180 degree shift from what was IL2. Better damage and flight modeling are just a few of the improvements.
As Oleg has said you can man guns on the ground, tank tracks move, vehicles and troops are modeled. Even grass is modeled all animated effected by the wind.
So your argument that people will stay with what they know is very shortsighted. I joined the Il2 community many years ago and Storm of War is the Holy Grail, everyone has talked about it, dreamt about it and will buy it.
All flight sims will be compared to it for years to come. Il2 will die a death, not immediately but fast enough to make some shake their heads. Six years from now Il2 will be a distant memory available as a bargain basement game for non-cutting edge computers.
Remember SOW BoB is only the first of many incarnations of the series. A phased improvement of the engine is scheduled halfway through its life span. My guess is Theatre of War 2 will use the engine as well.
If you had been around in pre-Il2 day you would understand the difference SOW will make.

+1

IL2 will become like EAW has. A foundly remembered sim that was well ahead of it's time. Remember we all tend to look back through rose tinted glasses. I still think EAW is great but it cant hold a candle to the original IL2 and what IL2 has become. I loved EAW, currently still loving IL2 but as sure as night follows day, SOW will take over.

[KG26_Alpha]

Isnt this supposed to be a questions thread to Oleg ??

All I see is inane chat about modding IL2 1946.

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Here's my question.

Re: BoB SoW: Will payloads be able to be dropped singularly especially the heavier bombs as at present they all go in pairs including the torps, individual release should be employed.

Regards

[6S.Maraz]

Originally Posted by KG26_Alpha

Re: BoB SoW: Will payloads be able to be dropped singularly especially the heavier bombs as at present they all go in pairs including the torps, individual release should be employed.

Good request.

I don't think that an aircraft can fly well with a bomb under one wing and not the other, but they could be released at a configurable salvo interval (say, 0,1 seconds to 1 second). Also for bombs dropped automatically by the bombsight, a salvo interval should be configurable.

Maraz

[Bobb4]

Originally Posted by 6S.Maraz

Good request.

I don't think that an aircraft can fly well with a bomb under one wing and not the other, but they could be released at a configurable salvo interval (say, 0,1 seconds to 1 second). Also for bombs dropped automatically by the bombsight, a salvo interval should be configurable.

Maraz

I agree, but I wonder how historical it would be? Any bomber fundi know whether it was possible in WW2 to drop seperate or individual bombs? Tried to google it but found nothing. I have always wondered why the H111 has to drop both torpedoes in a anti-shipping attack. Always thought it must have been historical, now I am not so sure?

[6S.Maraz]

Level bombers had some "keyboards" or similar devices, to set delay between bomb drops. I don't know about the He.111 torpedoes, but being near the centerline (not wongs) it seems feasible that they were dropped in different moments (maybe short time one after the other with slightly different angle?)

Maraz