Is anyone level bombing in the HE-111?

[Sutts]

Originally Posted by nadasero

Hi,

I made a number of tutorial videos, showing how to fly german and italian twin engine planes. Until now, they are all in geman but I'm thinking about doing new an better ones (probably also in english) when the next patch brings significant changes and improvements.

http://www.youtube.com/user/nadasero1?feature=mhee

Here are some things, I found out so far.



I think, the He-111 H/P is the most difficult plane to start. Gaining speed takes lots of time and runway. I learned a lot about the landscape behind the runway until I found a save way to take of.

The revs in the simulation are never reaching the levels and values as described in the He111-manuals.

I couldn't find any indicator for the radiators. You can see them in the outside view but this is obviously not an option.



With simple bombsights, you are always looking to the spot where the bombs are going to hit if you release them. The Lotfe (and the Norden) are looking forward and the fact, that the croshair it not moving shows, that all values are correct and the release will be perfect (if the altitude is correct and device works as it has to).

If the Croshair moves down, the tracking is to fast and you lower the speed-value (Ctrl 2).

If the croshair moves to the right, the plane shifts to the right (wind or flight-parameters can be the reason for this). The bombs will drop right of the flight direction. In this case you correct the lotfe to the right (Ctrl 6). The device is now looking a little bit to the right. You have to repeat this until the croshair stops moving. Now you see where the bombs will hit, which is usually not your intended target but there should be time to change course until the target is in the center again. Because of this, it is important to have an indicator showing at what angle the bombs will drop so you can decide if it is still OK or if you need another run.

In old movies, you can see how the norden is used in the B17. There is for example "The war lover" (1962) with steve McQueen showing him as the pilot.

At 1:58 the pilot says "it's all yours". Now the plane is controled from the bombsight until the bombs are dropped. The Norden indicates when it's time to drop with a light, but the actual command is done with a button.

I'm in agreement that the Norden was linked to the autopilot and actually flew the aircraft on the bomb run. However, the Brits had much less complex devices and spoken instructions were required for course adjustments.

I believe I've seen footage of german bomb aimers waving course corrections to their pilot but I can't be sure. Perhaps someone can clarify?

[nadasero]

Originally Posted by Sutts

I'm in agreement that the Norden was linked to the autopilot and actually flew the aircraft on the bomb run. However, the Brits had much less complex devices and spoken instructions were required for course adjustments.

I believe I've seen footage of german bomb aimers waving course corrections to their pilot but I can't be sure. Perhaps someone can clarify?

I'm sure you are right about the Brits and it is the same with the Italians (BR.20).

Here are some additional things from a german manual for the He111 H-16:

There are two L-R switches to control the autopilot. On is on the right end of the stick (we have this without funktion in the game). It should be just like in the Ju88. The other is left to the bomb-sight and control can be given to the "Bombenschütze". It looks just like the on on the panel left of the pilot.

The autopilot works a little bit different to what we have today. Here is a translation of the steps:

1. Press left button below the gyro (Kurskreisel).
2. Main autopilot switch to 1 (stage 1 of the AP)
3. Wait 3 minutes (or 10 if it is cold)
meanwhile
a) Use L-R switch to set the upper course on gyro to actual cours
b) Use right button below gyro to sync lower course on gyro to the upper
4. Main autopilot switch to stage 2 (this is our stage 1)
keep at least 300m safety margin above ground
5. Pull out right button below gyro
Autopilot is now working

....

Changing Course
1. Use L-R switch on stick or at bombsight to change upper course on gyro
2. Use airleron to keep slip indicator centered

....

bomb run
1. Switch to L-R switch at bombsight
2. The switch on the stick is now out of control (this is our AP stage 2)
switch back imideately after the bombrun
3. There is an idicator-light showing that control is at the bombsight
4. there might be a device called "Y-Anlage". Bombruns with this radio direction control device are not using the bomb sight
5. Landing with autopilot "ist VERBOTEN"

So to sum this up:
The two course displays on the gyro are handled vice versa. The upper shows the course we whant to go, the lower shows the course we are going to and is corrected by the right button below (which makes much more sense)

The pilots L-R switch is not on the stick (but the position of all kind of instruments and switches is changed a lot from version to version).

I didn't find any information about a stage 2 controling all three axes. We have this two stages, but with fewer switches and we don't need to wait 3 minutes until the gyro is warmed up and on speed.

In total, we are very close to historical correctness and I think they should fix the more important bugs like the Ju88-gyro first.

For the planes without AP, I would recommend an Autopilot which holds course, speed and altitude as soon as we switch the bombsight. With the L-R button-commands we can change the course in small steps. A "Left" or "Right" call is played to make this as realistic as we can get with one player.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by nadasero

For the planes without AP, I would recommend an Autopilot which holds course, speed and altitude as soon as we switch the bombsight. With the L-R button-commands we can change the course in small steps. A "Left" or "Right" call is played to make this as realistic as we can get with one player.

Exactly. This would simulate the player-controlled bombardier giving course correction instruction to the AI-controlled pilot while we are in the bomb run, then we could switch back to pilot.

Pretty good research here and thanks for the explanation about side slip.

[JG52Uther]

Really must find the time to learn the LW bombers properly, the He111 was just about my favourite aircraft in '46.

[Blackdog_kt]

It's not too hard, just spawn in a free flight mission and follow the guides here.

After a couple of offline trial runs you can also go online on ATAG and ask specific questions on their teamspeak. There is a cadre of more or less bomber-specialized pilots there across various timezones and they are all willing to help: Jimbop and Dutch are usually handling the Blenheim, Keller is instructing people on the 111.

I'm also joining them every now and then, but i usually join late and my mic remains unused (don't want to wake up everyone in the house at 5am, shouting "bombs away!" hahahaha ), but i listen in on TS and will reply on the in-game team chat.

Generally speaking, after some collective effort there's enough knowledge to use bombers and enough people willing to "teach" it to others. It won't be an exaggeration to say that when the next patch comes, at least online play will be significantly transformed. Bomber pilots are already winning maps with bugged bombsights and despite the memory leak bug. This last one prevents people from flying in groups or with escorts and forces bombers to go in alone, in staggered runs with an advancing fighter sweep or low on the deck. And still, maps are consistently won and some people can close a target in a single run.

Imagine what happens when we can fly in groups, with escorts and debugged bombsights

[ATAG_Doc]

There is a growing nucleolus of bomber pilots that's growing larger by the day in ATAG and on both sides. A lot more blue than red for obvious reasons though. This is why we desperately need a flyable Wellington. It just has to be done.

[csThor]

The russian community is making a "People's Flight Manual". Wouldn't it be time to create a similar manual specifically for the more complex aircraft (i.e. He 111 Manual, Ju 88 Manual etc)? Just a question ...