AI is on top of my list

[buddye]

Originally Posted by nuNce

Little OT. How is that game, is it still worth it? How does it compare to Il-2 1946?

Just my opinion,

BOBII best at, AI and dynamic campaign

IL2 best at , MP, and Mission Build Tool

Everything else really depends on the players personal view so really not very consistent.

Bottom line for me is both games are good and are fun to play.

[buddye]

Originally Posted by Fall_Pink?

buddye,

Just out of curiosity, but what if you 'commercialize' this knowledge you have on flight sim AI? How hard would it be and how much time would be needed?

Now every game has it's own AI (mostly flawed and buggy at first) and each developer seems to make the same mistakes over and over again. First person shooter AI is different from flight sim AI, I understand that, but BoB2 and Cod are essentially the same: ww2 flight sims. They have the same number of planes in the air, same type of fighters and bombers.

Even more modern flight sims would be able to make use of the AI tables/matrices and set of maneuvers you made for bob2, right? AI pilots remain AI pilots, whatever the time period, so mimicking human behavior is the constant here. It's just the capabilities and tactics that change when new weapons platforms emerge.

It would be really nice to see some real progress in this field, that's all

Rgs,
FP

The AI maneuvers are flown in BOBII using commands (AI do not use a joystick to fly). I would expect that the commands are tailored for BOBII (of course I have no knowledge of the COD AI design and data base). The data base for the AI is also BOBII specific as well as all the many support programs.

The basic design and approach to AI could be transferred/reused but the new code, integration, and testing would be very significant, IMHO. It would take one person years to complete (if they understood the BOBII AI) and it also assumes a good Player test team to test the AI maneuvers so the project could be coded and tested in small increments.

[Fall_Pink?]

Originally Posted by buddye

The AI maneuvers are flown in BOBII using commands (AI do not use a joystick to fly). I would expect that the commands are tailored for BOBII (of course I have no knowledge of the COD AI design and data base). The data base for the AI is also BOBII specific as well as all the many support programs.

The basic design and approach to AI could be transferred/reused but the new code, integration, and testing would be very significant, IMHO. It would take one person years to complete (if they understood the BOBII AI) and it also assumes a good Player test team to test the AI maneuvers so the project could be coded and tested in small increments.

Buddye,

Maybe naive thinking here, but I'd expected a more exchangable and compatible AI, for example a set of dll's and a SDK I wasn't really thinking of adding it all quickly in CoD; that's not going to happen.

A package that could be marketed and sold to flight sim makers and expanded into other AI areas as well. Unsure if there's a market for it, but given the state much of the AI is in today, I'd say "yes".

Rgs,
FP

[nearmiss]

Originally Posted by buddye

Just my opinion,

BOBII best at, AI and dynamic campaign

IL2 best at , MP, and Mission Build Tool

Everything else really depends on the players personal view so really not very consistent.

Bottom line for me is both games are good and are fun to play.

The dynamic campaign works well enough for BOB II. Most of the battle was air combat and the campaign manages that well enough. I'm not sure with the one map a mission builder tool would have made that much difference. There was a time I worked very closely with one of the A2A contract programmers to build a mission builder tool. The project was cancelled, after one minor beta release.

The IL2 Online MP was the salvation of the game. The FMB is a tedious tool to work with and made the process of building missions very time consuming. I could spend hours explaining things that need fixing in the FMB. LOL

It is nice you are spending some time on the forums. Hopefully, you will be a catalyst for a constantly improving AI performance in COD.

I recently reinstalled the BOB II and renewed knowledge of what a competent AI Performance really means.

Do you know if there will be continued work on the BOB II? The latest update is 2010 as I read from the A2A forums.

[buddye]

Originally Posted by nearmiss

The dynamic campaign works well enough for BOB II. Most of the battle was air combat and the campaign manages that well enough. I'm not sure with the one map a mission builder tool would have made that much difference. There was a time I worked very closely with one of the A2A contract programmers to build a mission builder tool. The project was cancelled, after one minor beta release.

The IL2 Online MP was the salvation of the game. The FMB is a tedious tool to work with and made the process of building missions very time consuming. I could spend hours explaining things that need fixing in the FMB. LOL

It is nice you are spending some time on the forums. Hopefully, you will be a catalyst for a constantly improving AI performance in COD.

I recently reinstalled the BOB II and renewed knowledge of what a competent AI Performance really means.

Do you know if there will be continued work on the BOB II? The latest update is 2010 as I read from the A2A forums.

The BOBII 2.11 Code , Landscape, and MultiSkin Update is the Latest.

The landscape and object guys have been working on improving the BOBII landscape with new objects, trees, trains, and ships.The MultiSkin has been improved to include German Bombers and the fighters have also been improved to include the German Ju87 and BF110.

We have a new programmer working on the BOBII Campaign issues and problems. This will be a long term project to enhance the Dynamic campaign.

BOBII progress is painfully slow as the BDG is a small part time all volunteer workforce and one of key members has been unaviable due to very serious family issues.

[buddye]

Originally Posted by Fall_Pink?

Buddye,

Maybe naive thinking here, but I'd expected a more exchangable and compatible AI, for example a set of dll's and a SDK I wasn't really thinking of adding it all quickly in CoD; that's not going to happen.

A package that could be marketed and sold to flight sim makers and expanded into other AI areas as well. Unsure if there's a market for it, but given the state much of the AI is in today, I'd say "yes".

Rgs,
FP

The list of data interfaces (flight and FM data) required from the Simulator is so large and time critical that unless the simulator is written like FSX (which is not the case for todays Combat Flight Sims) where the flight and FM data is made available to a external application then an external AI application can not be implemented (at least that is where my current analysis of the possibility of implememting an external AI maneuver stands).

I need to look at the possibility of implementing smaller functions of the AI to see if it is cost-effective.

[salmo]

The dev's are now asking for specific examples to improve the Ai. See HERE

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

Why pc pilots would prefer artificial intelegence over a real dynamic human is beyond me they will never get better, I take that back, they will get better then the AI (which will probably suck durring our lifetimes)....unless they cant get internet maybe.

[csThor]

Originally Posted by MajorBoris

Why pc pilots would prefer artificial intelegence over a real dynamic human is beyond me they will never get better, I take that back, they will get better then the AI (which will probably suck durring our lifetimes)....unless they cant get internet maybe.

Because AI doesn't have what soured any kind of enjoyment I could derive from online gameplay? That little negligable thing called a human ego (which continuously had to be stroked)? I've seen enough kindergarten behavior to cure me for good from going online ever again. Simply put I prefer a style of gameplay focused on history as opposed to the everlasting gangbang that the great majority of the players favor. The human factor is grossly overrated ... in fact a human is more likely to be even more predictable than any AI: Shoot one down and he'll whine on some message board about unrealistic FMs, DMs, weapons or anything else that lets him mask his own inaptitude by pointing fingers at other somewhat "esotheric" factors.

[ATAG_MajorBorris]

Originally Posted by csThor

Because AI doesn't have what soured any kind of enjoyment I could derive from online gameplay? That little negligable thing called a human ego (which continuously had to be stroked)? I've seen enough kindergarten behavior to cure me for good from going online ever again. Simply put I prefer a style of gameplay focused on history as opposed to the everlasting gangbang that the great majority of the players favor. The human factor is grossly overrated ... in fact a human is more likely to be even more predictable than any AI: Shoot one down and he'll whine on some message board about unrealistic FMs, DMs, weapons or anything else that lets him mask his own inaptitude by pointing fingers at other somewhat "esotheric" factors.

Man those are some sour grapes csThor, you should give the ATAG coms just one chance, Im sure you will see ten times the teamwork, comaradery and fun in general, the group of guys on there are passionate and always trying to help each other improve. Whining? rather rare realy as most of the whiners post on the forums much more then fly. As far as the human factor being over rated, I disagree whole heartedly as this sim is realy geared towards online play. Any way, Im sure if you show up the pilots will be very happy to have you as a wing"man".