water cannon

[Skoshi Tiger]

[QUOTE=unreasonable;323490]

IMHO, the mobs have been mostly apolitical youths out for some excitement, and judging from how fat some of them looked on the TV pictures they were certainly not hungry. Presumably they got bored waiting for the next CloD patch...

Some combination of carrots and sticks will be applied, mostly without any real belief that anything fundamental will change. The underclass will go back to their ghettos. The middle-class opportunist gansta wannabees will go back to their sociology courses at "university". And the bankers and politicians will go back to fleecing the society they have come to believe does not exist.
QUOTE]

Ah! So what your saying is the hash gun laws in the UK are designed to maintain the centurys old class based system and repress the majority of the population? Maybe the guys in the US have got it right after all?

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by BadAim

Ahh, you've reinforced ruggbutt's assertion that "an armed society is a polite society". Sternjaeger just can't be polite because he's been forcibly disarmed, whereas ruggbutt has no such problem.

As far as "political correctness" goes, Titus; here in the states it's source is the same as that which would disarm us, thus the correlation in our minds of the two. I assume Sternjaeger thinks similarly.

Yep, my perspective in this thread is the one of the guy that was raised in a country where, albeit not as much as in the States, there's the possibility of owning firearms (carrying them around on your person is not that simple though), moving to a country where the laws and the stupidity of politicians did a lot of damage to the culture and rights of citizen.

Let me give you an example: a couple of years ago I went to a militaria fair in Bedford, there were LOADS of deactivated weapons, the cherry on top was a Mauser Gewehr 98 in mint conditions, coming straight from the Mauser museum in Germany and de-activated so it could be sold. Now what sort of moron who likes collecting firearms would have them deactivated?! It's something so ridiculous it boggles my mind! It's like buying a Ferrari with NO engine inside, what's the bloody point besides masturbation??

It's the bottomline hypocrisy lingering here that drives me nuts: if you go to Beltring you will be in ACRES of militaria stalls, hundreds of people walking around in full uniforms and blank firing guns, tanks and cannons, heck they even re-enact battles! But talk about working firearms and they all look the other way.. it's INSANE, how can you be so much into that, wearing a Nazi uniform, firing blanks against other figurants and then calling people who use working firearms crazies?!

There were a couple of lads with bandaged thumbs, victims of the "Garand bite", which could have avoided it if they knew how to handle a rifle, even if deactivated.


Truth is that the crime rate in this country is very low, and it's mostly petty stuff that could be avoided if Police did actually behave like a police force, not your patronising friends. Go down to London East at night, or in the rough areas of Manchester and Liverpool, and see how safe it feels. And no, I wouldn't feel much safer with a gun at my side, I would feel safer is police here wasn't a gross joke.

My long term plan is to bring here all the firearms that are deemed as legal, I have some 12+ carabines from WW1 and WW2 that I like to use, keep clean and look at, because they REALLY represent what it meant to go to war, more than prancing about like a tit dressed up in an uniform. I have taken several UK friends to the shooting range and they all defined it a changing experience, some of them even started going regularly.

As for those worried of crazy people with guns: a crazy person will be crazy with or without a gun, if he wants to kill you he'll do it with any possible mean, I'd rather have the chance to put him down at a distance with one round that come to physical contact, which could get very ugly, but then again, if you never found yourself in a fight for your life situation I doubt you could understand.

Once again, as long as the law allows me to own firearms, I will. And to the American friends here, you should hear the horror stories of the thousands of people handing in their guns when the ban got stricter: thousands of semiauto rifles and pistols handed in and destroyed.. utter insanity..

[von Pilsner]

Overall homicide rate per 100,000 pop.

England & Wales 1.45
United States 8.55

After researching one statistic on one page of wikipedia for about 35 seconds it would seem we either have a higher percentage of homicidal folks in the USA, gun availability does matter, random internet statistics don't tell the whole story, some other variables (standard of living, industrialization, political climate) change things dramatically, or our societies are a lot different than I thought.

Maybe if it were 5.9 times more likely you would be murdered you'd want to own a gun too.... (I own 2 ) conversely if I lived in a society where guns and homicide were less common I probably would not care if I owned guns or not (ok, shooting targets is pretty fun).

[drewpee]

Still don't get the idea that a civilized world is safer with guns. Are we also to believe nuclear weapons makes our planet safer? They are also said to be for self defence.
As far as the argument that cars are more dangerous that's ludacris. What about ambulances, fire engines, supply trucks and farm vehicles. They're a necessary risk. Saving far more than killing.

[raaaid]

haha a good friends in the states told me he would move to europe
according to him the homicide rate was bigger than born rate(probably not ture)

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by drewpee

Still don't get the idea that a civilized world is safer with guns. Are we also to believe nuclear weapons makes our planet safer? They are also said to be for self defence.
As far as the argument that cars are more dangerous that's ludacris. What about ambulances, fire engines, supply trucks and farm vehicles. They're a necessary risk. Saving far more than killing.

erm, how do you think we haven't killed each other after WW2 so far? The "peaceful" United Kingdom has some 226 nuclear warheads, enough to obliterate this planet a couple of times..

Since the end of WW2 peace among the "important countries" has been maintained by a balance of firepowers, not by smiles and civilised manners.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by drewpee

Still don't get the idea that a civilized world is safer with guns. Are we also to believe nuclear weapons makes our planet safer? They are also said to be for self defence.
As far as the argument that cars are more dangerous that's ludacris. What about ambulances, fire engines, supply trucks and farm vehicles. They're a necessary risk. Saving far more than killing.

guns are just a weapon, not the weapon. They can be used in an offensive manner as much as they can be used in a defensive one, and they're the ultimate balance: no matter how strong you are, if I have a gun and you're bigger than me, I win.

The example you make is an exception just like firearms given to armed response squads: they have a specific purpose. Still, cars and reckless driving kill more than firearms.

[Sternjaeger II]

Originally Posted by von Pilsner

Overall homicide rate per 100,000 pop.

England & Wales 1.45
United States 8.55

After researching one statistic on one page of wikipedia for about 35 seconds it would seem we either have a higher percentage of homicidal folks in the USA, gun availability does matter, random internet statistics don't tell the whole story, some other variables (standard of living, industrialization, political climate) change things dramatically, or our societies are a lot different than I thought.

Maybe if it were 5.9 times more likely you would be murdered you'd want to own a gun too.... (I own 2 ) conversely if I lived in a society where guns and homicide were less common I probably would not care if I owned guns or not (ok, shooting targets is pretty fun).

sorry, is it homicide or homicide committed by means of a gun? You'd be surprised to see how many people kill others with other means than a gun.

[winny]

Number of Police officers killed in the UK since 1900 = Around 160.

Number of Police officers killed in the USA last year = Around 150.
(150 seems to be the average per year, the 70's averaged around the 190/200 mark)

I don't want guns completely legalised in my country just because someone wants to collect them. Or gets off on shooting stuff..

If someone wanted to attack me with a knife I'd at least be close enough to defend myself.

I've had a gun pulled on me twice in my life, I still don't feel the need to own one.

[unreasonable]

Originally Posted by Sternjaeger II

sorry, is it homicide or homicide committed by means of a gun? You'd be surprised to see how many people kill others with other means than a gun.

Mortality [US]

All homicides
•Number of deaths: 18,361
•Deaths per 100,000 population: 6.1

Firearm homicides
•Number of deaths: 12,632
•Deaths per 100,000 population: 4.2

Source: Deaths: Final Data for 2007, tables B, 18
From CDC website