landscape of official storm of war trailer

[Jatta Raso]

Originally Posted by Baron

And, believe it or not, the devs doesn't have to listen. U might think they have to because u are entitled, but they really don't have to. If they think its fine there really isn't much u can do about it and if they do change it its because they CHOOSE to listen.

Cold hard truth, i know.

As for making changes, the quote from Oleg in another post should tell u that it MIGHT not be so easy as most of the "experts" in here think. The colour changes has to correspond with lighting conditions, times of day, dynamic lighting etc.etc. What is the point of having dynamic lighting, dynamic weather (when it arrives) if the "perfect" colours etc. only looks "perfect" at 12.00 noon

Its one thing for a modder to do it since he doesn't have to pay any attention to the rest of the game and how the "whole" works (and they rarely do) but another matter entirely if u have to stand by your work towards a boat load of "experts" for years to come. Because, as we all know, there are quite a few in these forums that have a real hard time letting go.

As for how it looks now, i couldn't care less if some people think it doesnt look like ENGLAND because the colour is a bit off, or if the trees isn't placed correctly (seriously?) because, as a WHOLE, it looks good to me and as far as i know IT IS a BoB flight sim, u know, the one that took place up in the sky, And NOT a "true representation of ENGLAND" sim. There are other more important things to do first.

But who knows, maby the change will appear one day because the CHOSE to listen, even if they don have to.


BTW. This: "those who whine about justified complaints, i'd really like to see their point." Tells me everyone who have a "complaint" or want a fix automatically assumes he is right and anyone who disagrees is a "whiner" and is therefore not entitled to think "it looks ok". Not a very mature approach, is it? Tells me the "problem" lies in those who have "legitimate complaints" to begin with. Takes us right back to: the devs can do whatever the like and think whatever they want, its their product, their choise to listen or not listen. Just because u bought a COPY doesn't automaticaly make u the CeO of the company. For ex. from my end (regarding this issue) u saying BoBII represents a better representation of England than CoD is something i cant for the life of me rap my head around, i just cant. Imo that game looks like ****** (insert bad word). So, in your opinion, who should the devs listen to? Or maby its easier for them if they go by what THEY think?

pal why do you quote me if you CHOOSE not to address anything i said?? what have i said specifically about colours?? when was i implying demands to devs?? nowhere i think. you just lack concentration when reading. and your BTW end paragraph, i can't answer that, it just doesn't make any sense. read more carefully, you don't seem to have a way at manipulating meanings.
just a word about the devs doing what they want: plainly right and ok with, as long as we're told the truth. which wasn't the case. again read carefully at the end of 1st paragraph (not to mention the vid, where features where advertised, which were re-stated in later stages of development)

anyway, i read a whole lot more then i write in here, what drove me in here were incredibly intolerant comments towards legit criticism, triggered by the devs former promises, and if everything i (or others) write can be used as fuel for war, well, makes me not want to.

as a final word, i just can't understand this attitude where you're supposed to not just notice but appreciate inertia effects on spinning wheels you forgot to retract after take off, but then you have to pretend major visual aspects are ok when clearly they're not. sounds kinda schizophrenic to me. after all this is a simulation; its users are known for being perfectionist and demanding. something cultivated by the 1C founder himself. some go about physics, some go about visual fidelity, some go for everything. to each he's own i say

[SsSsSsSsSnake]

bravo

[Das Attorney]

I've got X-Plane 9 installed with photoscenery of the UK assembled from Google Maps. (G2XPL plugin - zoom level 17).

It compares favourably with the IL2 textures. Granted, one represents England 70 years ago and one is for present day, but it seems logical that the colours of plants/crops haven't changed that much in the years between.

COD is missing a decent weather system though. IMO, this would make much more difference to perception of the colours than what there is at the moment (permanent dry, sunny day at the moment in COD).

The map is a work of genius though. I live in Brighton and frequently travel between home and London. The whole surrounding area is easily recognisable. The South Downs are accurate and the towns and villages are in the right place. It's very easy to navigate around based on the scenery, which I think is far more important than the colours. Good work 1C!

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by Das Attorney

I've got X-Plane 9 installed with photoscenery of the UK assembled from Google Maps. It compares favourably with the IL2 textures.
COD is missing a decent weather system though.

Hmmm.................., ok I wasn't going to post this, as I'm not a fan of photo scenery, but as I don't have a real aeroplane, or a licence to fly one, photo scenery is the next best thing to look at.

Yes I know the light conditions are hugely different and photo scenery has no ground detail or shadows, but as a comparison of Cliffs to 'reality'?

I actually like the landscape in Cliffs if the colours were a little closer, the trees looked English, and the roads had hedgerows. In fact I don't really understand why hedgerows couldn't be added to the roads/field - models/textures as a matter of course. But I know nothing of 3D programming. On the ground, and close to it, Cliffs looks superb. It's only when you climb it starts to look 'wrong'.

I also can't wait for a weather system to be implemented successfully, you'll see from the clip what I mean, (and before anyone jumps on my neck, I know REX are only 2D clouds).

Don't blink, the comparisons are very short. Anyway, enjoy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LubLOo2en0k

[Baron]

Originally Posted by Dutch_851

Hmmm.................., ok I wasn't going to post this, as I'm not a fan of photo scenery, but as I don't have a real aeroplane, or a licence to fly one, photo scenery is the next best thing to look at.

Yes I know the light conditions are hugely different and photo scenery has no ground detail or shadows, but as a comparison of Cliffs to 'reality'?

I actually like the landscape in Cliffs if the colours were a little closer, the trees looked English, and the roads had hedgerows. In fact I don't really understand why hedgerows couldn't be added to the roads/field - models/textures as a matter of course. But I know nothing of 3D programming. On the ground, and close to it, Cliffs looks superb. It's only when you climb it starts to look 'wrong'.

I also can't wait for a weather system to be implemented successfully, you'll see from the clip what I mean, (and before anyone jumps on my neck, I know REX are only 2D clouds).

Don't blink, the comparisons are very short. Anyway, enjoy.

I dont know how far of i am, but the REX scenery does not mach up my vision (in my head) of how England looks like from above. At least not the colours. Maby looks to "modern"? Almost like industrial farming areas (if there is such a thing) Lighting, time of day and weather probably have something to do with it to.

Anyways, and i dont know if i recall this correctly, but i think Oleg did mention that miles and miles of hedge rows would become very hardware intensive, dont ask me why. And "knowing" Oleg he was probably talking about actual hedges in 3D.

[furbs]

What would help a little with the terrain is replacing those white paths that seem to be everywhere with dark green paths that would from above look like the hedgerows that are so badly missing.

Its the terrain i believe that causes the stutters, i think maybe if they look into how the textures are loaded maybe they can reduce stutters more.

[ATAG_Dutch]

Originally Posted by Baron

I dont know how far of i am, but the REX scenery does not mach up my vision (in my head) of how England looks like from above.

I should've also pointed out that REX is just the sky, water and clouds @ £45 or so. The landscape is VFR real scenery also @ £45 or so. It cost me the same (roughly) for two collector's editions of Cliffs of Dover as it did for these two 'add-ons'..

Oh, the Spit was about £20 aswell. I must be barmy or summat.

I reckon that given time we'll see improvements to the landscape generally, but when the weather engine gets going, the landscape colours will start to make more sense. Try to concentrate on the area of shadow under a cloud as it is at the moment and you'll get an idea. I didn't manage to catch this in the clip.

[philip.ed]

Baron, have you played BoB2? It's a five/six year old game and still has the best campaign/AI/speech-pack of any current sim modelling WW2/BoB. CloD should have nocked it out of the water in this aspect, but it didn't.
Yes with regards to the terrain, BoB2's is largely poor, but when you're flying at angels-20, it's not too far from CloD's, and definitely doesn't detract from the immersion.
In any case, I can see what you're saying, but you seem to have gone off at a massive tangent from Jatta's original post. Yes, the devs can do whatever they like, but I think you have forgotten what Luthier wrote a while back (maybe because he spoke in traditional English, and not text language):

"If we didn't listen to criticism, Il-2 would never in a million years get to where it did back in 2001. So please keep it coming. " That speaks ten-folds for what is useful to the Dev team, and IMHO, constructive criticism for those familiar with England's terrain is useful for them to take on board. Indeed, it also shows a great approach to CloD as well; in that the team is willing to take our criticism on board. Obviously many people's views may conflict, but it is possible to see that there are areas of the terrain which most people predominantly agree on: the trees-placing, the lack of hedge-rows, and the style of the trees in relation to the landscape. Colours and the like are another matter entirely; but the actual geometry of the landscape could clearly be improved (maybe with drastic results).

[RCAF_FB_Orville]

it is possible to see that there are areas of the terrain which most people predominantly agree on: the trees-placing, the lack of hedge-rows, and the style of the trees in relation to the landscape.

Hear, Hear. It's very important to the majority of posters on this issue, whether they be Britons or not. Those who are know for a fact that CoD's landscape is sadly in no way a convincing representation of England. Even people from overseas know that something is badly awry, and they are correct.

Pointing this out is not going to make Luthier and Co cry or get upset and wound their feelings as long as its done in a respectful manner (which by and large it is). They are professional sim devs and constructive criticism is their meat and drink. Criticism is important in any endevour, because like anyone else Devs are human and are not always right, or things can be improved. It is an ongoing process. Luthier is wise enough to know this.

If I wanted an opinion as to the veracity of a computer recreation of France for example, who would I ask? A Mongolian? No, that would be daft. I think I'd ask the Frenchman, and I think I would take his opinion and evaluation quite seriously. That is not to say that overseas people do not know what England looks like (in fact reading these posts most definitely do)

Please forgive me, but it does get a bit tiresome when people try to tell me what my own blinking country looks like. I think I and others would know. We don't need to recalibrate our monitors or any such nonsense. We have the trusty MkI eyeball with which we see it everyday. We know its not right, and that it is in need of pretty big improvement. Finito. End of story.

Constant 'OMG I LOVE YOU 1C!!!!' posts, while very nice to read for 1c I'm sure.....Actually contribute nothing whatsoever of value or utility. Pointing out things that can be improved actually do.

These are the facts of the case, M'lud.

Cheers.