Some considerations about the FM purists...

[skouras]

Interesting thread

[Blackdog_kt]

+1 to the OP, this

Originally Posted by Feathered_IV

I agree that some people fixate on FM far too much. Yes it is a simulation, but wouldn't you like to switch your gun off of saftey or go to oxygen too? Well worth 2 seconds in the turn or 5km off the top, I reckon.

and this

Originally Posted by JG4_Helofly

IMO performance is very important in the game because we don't have some other important variables like fear, fatigue, performance drop due to wear etc. So it makes a huge difference if a plane is 5km/h to fast because the other player will push his plane to the limit and not let you go away until he catches you. No worry about fuel limitations or possible death or physical body limitations.

That's why 5 km/h can make the difference

I too want accurate FMs, but not only for the sake of FMs. They are important because i enjoy flying the aircraft just as much as i like fighting in them (especially in the new sim with all their control quirks and different systems).

On the other hand, during a combat scenario the FM is not the prime goal but a tool to achieve what's important in a bigger picture sense: accurate tactical considerations, constraints and consequences being forced on the player.

That's why i strongly advocated more complex CEM and systems management during the sim's development, it's just a part of those things that make up the whole picture that we want to achieve.

What kind of plane i'm flying, what kind of ride the enemy is in, what's my mission profile, what's my fuel and loadout (big thumbs up for the 1:1 map, no more loading 25% fuel and enjoying top performance while in gliding distance of home base), what's my objective, is my aircraft the better performer in the match-up, the one that handles easier or the one that is easier to operate (CEM and subsystems) and how do i use that to my advantage?===> a fusion of all that, some decision making and you get an idea of what it might have felt like being in their shoes back then.

The FM is a super important tool in that equation, but it's not the only worthy cause


In summary yes, let's have accurate FMs, it's a must. That doesn't mean we have to leave everything else to the wayside until they are 100% accurate, 98% will do. The rest is in the environment: if we have life-size instead of down-scaled maps to fly over and the damage model is "smart" enough to cause a sequence of failures (which it can, i've seen it in CoD and it's awesome), the rest of the puzzle pieces will fall together nicely.

After all, having accurate FMs still leads to completely inaccurate encounters if we change the environmental setting where they take place: a bunch of fighters with a range of a few hundred miles duking it out at tree top level and bingo fuel on a map which is 150x150km is hardly accurate.

[JG4_Helofly]

Maye it would help if there would be a performance difference of about + or - 3% for every plane every time you fly. So even if the enemy flys a slightly faster plane, you don't know if he has a good production model or not. You might even be equally fast with a very well build slower plane. In fact, that's what happened in RL.
At the moment, you can't run away from a slightly faster plane, because after a 10 min chase at sea level, he will catch you. Even if he is only 2 km/h faster. Same goes for climb and turn. This wouldn't happen in RL since they had to worry about other things then chasing someone for hours.
And that's why pure performance is more important in the game than in RL IMO.

Originally Posted by JG4_Helofly

Maye it would help if there would be a performance difference of about + or - 3% for every plane every time you fly. So even if the enemy flys a slightly faster plane, you don't know if he has a good production model or not. You might even be equally fast with a very well build slower plane. In fact, that's what happened in RL.
At the moment, you can't run away from a slightly faster plane, because after a 10 min chase at sea level, he will catch you. Even if he is only 2 km/h faster. Same goes for climb and turn. This wouldn't happen in RL since they had to worry about other things then chasing someone for hours.
And that's why pure performance is more important in the game than in RL IMO.

That is one simply brilliant idea. Hope some of the devs are around to pick up on such solutions!

[Sven]

I agree with Helofly, that would solve the problem really well, if the basis for those slight performance drops/gains is correct, then it would be a very good and correct way to model the FM.

[Sauf]

Originally Posted by JG4_Helofly

Maye it would help if there would be a performance difference of about + or - 3% for every plane every time you fly. So even if the enemy flys a slightly faster plane, you don't know if he has a good production model or not. You might even be equally fast with a very well build slower plane. In fact, that's what happened in RL.
At the moment, you can't run away from a slightly faster plane, because after a 10 min chase at sea level, he will catch you. Even if he is only 2 km/h faster. Same goes for climb and turn. This wouldn't happen in RL since they had to worry about other things then chasing someone for hours.
And that's why pure performance is more important in the game than in RL IMO.

+1, this is actually a very good idea and completely realistic, also takes away a lot of the "spit/109 is porked" threads.

[Grand_Armee]

Excellent idea. Hope somebody picks up with it and runs with it.

[Seeker]

It's a hard discussion to take seriously when the controls are working backwards.

That type of thing worries more.