BF109 - Can't we just have the gunsight in the middle?

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by Lixma

Then you are doing something wrong. You're supposed to be looking straight ahead, not at the pen, but through the pen. Then you'll see the effect.

This might help.....

Pick a spot on the monitor screen as near the centre of the screen as you can (a word, a smiley, a dead fly..etc)....this is your 'target'. Sit comfortably and look straight at this point with both eyes - as normal.

Now, close your left eye and hold the pen about 20cm away from your right eye so it covers your particular target. Do not focus on the pen if possible, keep looking straight ahead as if you were able to see your 'target'.

Now open your left eye and you should see your target and a ghostly pen super-imposed on top of it. Both target and pen appear right in the middle of your field of vision despite the pen, in reality being offset to the right. Such is the principle of the Revi.


If someone can think of a single advantage to requiring a pilot, strapped tightly into a high performance fighter aircraft to start leaning over just to be able to see his gunsight, I have yet to hear it.

I wish i could see this affect in real life as the major problem i have with it is that the target sight would be very blurred and quite annoying to aim through and your eyes would constantly be adjusting to both the target and the gunsight target.

[Lixma]

Originally Posted by JG52Krupi

I wish i could see this affect in real life as the major problem i have with it is that the target sight would be very blurred and quite annoying to aim through as your eyes would constantly be adjusting to both the target and the gunsight target.

No, because the reticle (not just the Revi's but all* reflex sights) is focussed at infinity. This means that regardless of whether your visual target is located 10m, 100m, or 1000m away the reticle will remain sharp and in focus for you.

To be sure, some people find a reflex sight unnatural at first. They might try to close an eye, squint or as you mentioned find themselves trying to focus one eye upon the reticle and one eye on the target (migraineville); but it doesn't take long to get used to it.

* I think all.

EDIT: DayGlow beat me to it.....shakes fist....

[JG52Krupi]

Originally Posted by DayGlow

The sight is focused to infinity so it stays in focus overlaid on your target.

Originally Posted by Lixma

No, because the reticle (not just the Revi's but all* reflex sights) is focussed at infinity. This means that regardless of whether your visual target is located 10m, 100m, or 1000m away the reticle will remain sharp and in focus for you.

To be sure, some people find a reflex sight unnatural at first. They might try to close an eye, squint or as you mentioned find themselves trying to focus one eye upon the reticle and one eye on the target (migraineville); but it doesn't take long to get used to it.

* I think all.

EDIT: DayGlow beat me to it.....shakes fist....

Ah okay, thanks for the information I wasn't aware of this.

[carguy_]

Originally Posted by klem

I've never sat in a 109 with or without a gunsight - has
Did the LW pilot really lean over to see the gunsight reticle? Somehow I doubt it.

If what Lixma said is right, then to get a view of the full revi gunsight, a pilot must:
1. SITTING STRAIGHT - lean closer to the revi to get the "ghost" effect

or

2. SITTING A BIT TO THE RIGHT - seeing the full glowing crosshair without having to lean closer to it.

In the game we have the pilot sitting slightly to the right, close to the revi. Why?

After reading the FULL thread and generally agreeing with Lixma, I think that the classic IL2 SHIFT+F1 view was more correct, because one doesn`t have to lean close to the revi to see the crosshair, IF HE IS SITTING SLIGHLY TO THE RIGHT.

Hence, the old il2 gunsight view should be restored.

[heloguy]

The gunsight itself, not just the glass, has no provisions for adjustment either horizontally, or vertically according to any pictures, or museum pieces I've seen.

With that in mind, it should be noted that a reflector sight, or any gunsight for that matter, is adjusted to the actual bore of the weapon, not the user, so it's impossible that the sight be adjusted for each person as they are going to use it. I am in awe of those that say they must adjust their weapon's sight after it's already been zeroed. It only makes sense that someone would have to move their head in order to view the entire sight where it is reflected. The game has this particular instance correct. This ghostly image of the other half of the sight would only occur in a small portion of the range of someone's total range of motion in a cockpit. I don't disagree that it's possible, but I disagree with the overreaction that its omittance is debilitating. I would settle for Track IR support that was as stable, and intuitive as that that's included with the 6DOF mod for IL2.

[klem]

Originally Posted by Lixma

Then you are doing something wrong. You're supposed to be looking straight ahead, not at the pen, but through the pen. Then you'll see the effect.

This might help.....

Pick a spot on the monitor screen as near the centre of the screen as you can (a word, a smiley, a dead fly..etc)....this is your 'target'. Sit comfortably and look straight at this point with both eyes - as normal.

Now, close your left eye and hold the pen about 20cm away from your right eye so it covers your particular target. Do not focus on the pen if possible, keep looking straight ahead as if you were able to see your 'target'.

Now open your left eye and you should see your target and a ghostly pen super-imposed on top of it. Both target and pen appear right in the middle of your field of vision despite the pen, in reality being offset to the right. Such is the principle of the Revi.


If someone can think of a single advantage to requiring a pilot, strapped tightly into a high performance fighter aircraft to start leaning over just to be able to see his gunsight, I have yet to hear it.

OK I get that Lixma. I still think the reticle should be visible on the gunsight in 'Normal' view, thats what the pilot would have seen (with his right eye of course).

[fenrirswrath]

Can someone explain how to center the gunsight without trackir and without the zoom of loosen shoulder straps. I've tried holding down the middle and right MB and moving to the right, but that does nothing. I don't see any option in views or camera to adjust it.

[Lixma]

Originally Posted by carguy_

If what Lixma said is right, then to get a view of the full revi gunsight, a pilot must:
1. SITTING STRAIGHT - lean closer to the revi to get the "ghost" effect.

No. (and if that's what you think i've said i'm beginning to get worried about my communication skills...)

The pilot sits looking forward, no leaning forward, sideways or craning his neck. The Revi is adjusted to shine a full reticle image into his right eye. That's the whole point of it being offset.

Originally Posted by carguy

2. SITTING A BIT TO THE RIGHT - seeing the full glowing crosshair without having to lean closer to it.

Again, there's no need to sit a bit to the right (unless the Revi was set-up for someone else). Please remember the view point we see in CoD is not what a two-eyed human would see.

Please have a scan through the thread again, especially the posts/pictures dealing with what a real 109 pilot would see through his left and right eye compared with the Cyclops depicted in CoD.

[Lixma]

Originally Posted by heloguy

The gunsight itself, not just the glass, has no provisions for adjustment either horizontally, or vertically according to any pictures, or museum pieces I've seen.

The Revi unit was bolted solidly to the airframe. And in some 109 cockpit pictures you'll actually see extra supporting bars in an attempt to keep the unit as steady as possible.

However the reflector's line of sight was adjustable for elevation +/-2.5 degrees horizontally, and +/-3 degrees vertically. How this was done I do not know.

This adjustment was to allow the reticle to be reflected into the eye.....this adjustment didn't actually alter the reticle's position relative to the weapons. It didn't alter the zeroing.

There was also the ability to adjust the aircraft's seat-height. Much quicker and much less fuss. The handle is visible in CoD to the left just by the trim/flaps wheel. Doesn't work, though.

EDIT. I just stumbled across this. There was an additional adjustment available when mounting the sight. Assuming this replica is accurate the Revi unit could be moved closer or farther away from the pilot. This would alter the apparent size of the reticle relative to the edge of the reflector glass.

Which makes sense. The Revi was used on all kinds of different aircraft so the mounting brackets would have to offer some kind of telescopic adjustment for finer tuning.

http://cgi.ebay.com/WW2-German-Gunsi...-/230530262205

[Lixma]

This is worth posting.

It's a schematic of the FW-190. Look carefully.....



Make a note of....

a) the center-line.

b) the sight-line.

c) the position of the reticle

d) the horizontal separation between centre-line and sight-line - 40mm.

Now grab a tape measure, find a mirror and measure the distance from the centre of your nose to the middle of your right pupil.....

Mine is 37mm.

The offset Revi gunsight is installed to sit directly in the right eye's line of sight.

No leaning required.

Here's a link to the full image....I'd post it here but it's a bit big....3mb.

http://www.mediafire.com/imageview.p...n77up7&thumb=4