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IL-2 Sturmovik: Cliffs of Dover Latest instalment in the acclaimed IL-2 Sturmovik series from award-winning developer Maddox Games.

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  #1  
Old 04-10-2011, 01:41 PM
giovanni the ace giovanni the ace is offline
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Very interesting! Thanks for posting.

G.C.

Last edited by giovanni the ace; 04-10-2011 at 02:35 PM.
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  #2  
Old 04-10-2012, 10:04 AM
Red Dragon-DK Red Dragon-DK is offline
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Thanks Ltbear for putting this up. Great reading - well done Sir.

As you have mentioned, there is still speculation about what the motivation was, for Letting the Germann in at this time.

I saw a show yesterday where they belived, that the Goverment at that time strongly believed that the Germans would win the war and, therefore, was best interests, if they did not do too much resistance. This attitude hold right up to 43

It is debatable whether this was cowardly, but one thing is certain. It has saved many lives. Denmark did not have a real chance to provide enough resistance to stop the Germans. It would have been a slaughterhouse.

Unfortunately, this gave the Germans to quickly subsequent to occupy Norway. There was quite simply not enough time to prepare a warm welcome to the Germans in Norway, which the Allies would have wished they had.

But the Dane was fortunately not a bunch that went right down. There were subsequent many resistance groups taht did sabotage against the Germans. How effective it really was is not known with accuracy, but it is a fact that it was a great significant burdens for the occupation forces. (æøå)
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Old 04-09-2011, 06:58 AM
kimosabi kimosabi is offline
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Here's how Europe looked near the end of 1940, Brits look a bit lonely there:



Operation Weserübung was a synchronized operation which included Denmark and Norway in one sweep. Norway fell two months later(june) and was after june, constantly the target of Allied sabotage, using northern UK as a base. They even had "partisan" training camps in Scotland for Norwegian soldiers which had managed to escape. Stockholm was also used as a HQ for Norwegian resistance.

We really don't see much info on the invasion of Denmark, so thanks for posting this, LtBear.
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Old 04-09-2011, 07:08 AM
Rickusty Rickusty is offline
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Very interesting piece of hystory! Thank you.

Cheers
Riccardo
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Old 04-09-2011, 07:09 AM
Triggaaar Triggaaar is offline
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Thanks for the post, interesting
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Old 04-09-2011, 07:51 AM
HFC_Dolphin HFC_Dolphin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kimosabi View Post
Here's how Europe looked near the end of 1940, Brits look a bit lonely there:......
Well, Greeks were there too, defeating Italians and forcing Germans to delay operation Barbarossa in order to conquer Greece.
Well fought war
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Old 04-09-2011, 08:12 AM
Rickusty Rickusty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFC_Dolphin View Post
Well, Greeks were there too, defeating Italians and forcing Germans to delay operation Barbarossa in order to conquer Greece.
Well fought war
It should more correct to say "stopping the Italian's attack", not actually defeating the Italian Army.

Tactical defensive victory, yes. Decisive victory, not.

More of a stalemate in that campaign: roughly the same losses in both Armies too.
Apart from the aggressive counter-attack (with superior numbers) of the Greek Army between November-January, from February on , the war on that front resembled a static trench-warfare.

At first the Greek Army was able to stop the Italian attack into northern Epirus.
Then, the Italian Army was able to stop the Greek from advancing further and succesfully neglected the possibility to let the Greeks conquer either Valona or Tepeleni, their main objectives in that campaign.

The Italian rather big counter-attack on the 9th March of 1941 was quite a disaster, and the the front-line remained actually the same before the German intervantion.

I've been studying this campaign for years: it's probably the most idiotic and criminal act of either Mussolini and his little nephew Ciano.
A criminal war, without reason, without preparation, that cost a lot of good Greek and Italian young lives for... nothing really.
It's my (and others too) convinction, that this campaign was the main reason the Italian people stopped being supportive of either the Government, Mussolini itself, and the war in general.

The Italian generals were in general incompetents; the humble italian soldiers were actually the ones that saved their butt (and prestige) in stopping the Greeks from kicking us out in the adriatic sea...

Well, it's another thread so...

Cheers
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Old 04-09-2011, 08:23 AM
HFC_Dolphin HFC_Dolphin is offline
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Rickusty, I was pointing more to that British were not alone yet
With regards to Italian's attack to Greece, in my point of view Italian army was defeated for the simple reason that they attacked Greece, failed and had to retreat under Greek army's counter-attack.
Simply said, Italian's objective failed, while Greek's objective was successful.

Anyway, this is history - now we're best friends and soon we'll be both allied against "enemies" in the Economic war taking place right now in Europe.
But that's another story.

By the way, getting back to original post, all I can say is thanks, it was a nice read and those photos were a nice addition!
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Old 04-10-2011, 12:17 PM
Hellbender Hellbender is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HFC_Dolphin View Post
Well, Greeks were there too, defeating Italians and forcing Germans to delay operation Barbarossa in order to conquer Greece.
Well fought war
Since years now, historians showed that the Operations against Greece and Yugoslavia didn´t delay the invasion of Russia, since 1st the weather condidtions were to "wet" and Rasputitsa (the wet spring whether periode) wasn´t over in 1941 and 2nd the basic logistic requirements weren´t finished to start the invasion earlier than June.
Quote:
"According to Robert Kirchubel, "the main causes for deferring Barbarossa's start from 15 May 15-22 June were incomplete logistical arrangements, and an unusually wet winter that kept rivers at full flood until late spring"
Kirchubel (2005), p. 16
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  #10  
Old 04-10-2011, 07:06 AM
salmo salmo is offline
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Very interesting history and pics! Thank you.
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