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#1
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Here is roll rate for Spitfire with metal ailerons: ![]() |
#2
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kwiatek what relevance does that chart have on the game? it only shows spitVs. when there is a late 41/42 africa or channel mod with LF spitVs and 190A2s/3s then we can worry about that.
iirc the first test of metal ailerons were done on a spit2 in early 41. |
#3
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To show that the previous chart he posted was *not* a Spitfire with metal ailerons.
The conversion to the Merlin 45 engine would not affect the roll rate. |
#4
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It is also worth pointing out that there is quite a big difference between test roll rate and the roll rates achieved in service because of the nature of test procedure. In this period, stick forces were generally measured by sending the test pilot into the air with a calibrated spring (often requisitioned from the nearest butcher's shop). In order to get sensible results, tests need to be conducted under controlled conditions. It is no good just saying "roll as fast as you can", because that will tell you more about the pilot than the aeroplane. So tests were conducted to a procedure, and the details of that procedure could dramatically affect the results (e.g., you can almost always roll a lot faster with help from the rudder than without it). Likewise, force measurements needed to be performed with some care. Obviously you can only conduct measurements within the useful range of your equipment. If the scale only reads to 50 lbf then you can't measure 50 lbf properly, because once you hit 50 lbf on the scale, the actual meaning is >=50 lbf. Of course, these aeroplanes weren't designed for the convenience of test pilots, so finding enough elbow room for constant force roll tests probably wasn't trivial. All of these factors tend to reduce the measured roll rates somewhat; as such, "conservative" figures need not be the product of any kind of misinformation or conspiracy, and in fact might well emerge even against the wishes of the test organisation. Comparisons with modern aeroplanes at airshows doesn't really stack up. Most "WWII" aeroplanes you can see flying today are not maintained in original condition (it's unrealistic to expect operators not to embody the latest airframe and engine modifications to reduce their costs and improve safety), and they often don't have guns and ammunition in their wings when performing at airshows ![]() |
#5
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Oh dear, I must have read the first chart in too much of a hurry, I was under the impression they were both at 50lbs. My apologies Kurfürst, madrebel. Thanks for the detailed explanation though Viper!
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Last edited by TheGrunch; 04-05-2011 at 09:21 AM. |
#6
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For pull or push (back and forward) is not quite a pull. Certainly i can grab 50kg with both hands for some seconds. (50 kg is a cement sack). Are you capable to grab a cement sack? The possible force to be applied in the elevatot i guess is much higher. But certainly is very unpleasant to grab 22 kg to sides or 50 kg back and forward in a combat. Much of the pilot concentration must go to trying deflect the controls while tracking the enemy. Gunnery in this conditions is near impossible. This is a sensation we ll never experience in a sim. Last edited by Ernst; 04-05-2011 at 05:42 PM. |
#7
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afterwards a crash program was initiated to fit all front line spits with these ailerons. |
#8
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__________________
Il-2Bugtracker: Feature #200: Missing 100 octane subtypes of Bf 109E and Bf 110C http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/200 Il-2Bugtracker: Bug #415: Spitfire Mk I, Ia, and Mk II: Stability and Control http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/415 Kurfürst - Your resource site on Bf 109 performance! http://kurfurst.org ![]() |
#9
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i'm curious as to what your basing that on, cause it doesn't tally with what i'm reading in front of me.
Last edited by fruitbat; 04-03-2011 at 11:03 PM. |
#10
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Spitfire the History, page 142, Chapter "A temporary expedient" (ie. Mark V)
Letter dated 18 June 1940 (my bad, not april) from Sholto-Dougles, C-in-C of FC is quoted, saying that despite decision taken in November 1940, Spitfires are still delivered with fabric covered ailerons and its only now that production line started to use metal ailerons. Large number of Spitfires need retrofit, but Supermarine is only able to retrofit at 10 sets of ailerons per week. Great book btw, suggest order from publisher, dirt cheap. Mordin out. ![]()
__________________
Il-2Bugtracker: Feature #200: Missing 100 octane subtypes of Bf 109E and Bf 110C http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/200 Il-2Bugtracker: Bug #415: Spitfire Mk I, Ia, and Mk II: Stability and Control http://www.il2bugtracker.com/issues/415 Kurfürst - Your resource site on Bf 109 performance! http://kurfurst.org ![]() |
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