Orcs on the March thread

[atlatea]

Indeed, pain mirror is loads of fun. With a normal army, I wouldn't mind the usual Pain Mirror, Turn Back Time combo. Just that early on, my army is not that strong. I didn't actually try, I just figured it would be too annoying.

I didn't have Turn Back Time that early on, and I really really didn't feel like casting Phantom non-stop to restore back my Rune Mages or Black Dragons.

I'm not sure if it is a bad bad bad luck roll, but facing about 12 Archdemons in my first visit to Montero is not really easy for me. How the heck did it spawn that...

I can surely wreck it now, but I can't go island hopping for time. I do have to go back, but not sure if it is worth the time lost to hunt for monsters in a cavern.

Turn back time never really necessary for pain mirror, i never use pain mirror+turn back, though that is one of its combo.

What lv are you at montero? I usually at 30 ish in my first montero loop.

Same case here, i was lv 30 and i faced 30 ogres + 12 archdemons, 1k+ skelies, 150 ish ancient beholders, 300 ish goblin axe thrower at that time, i remember this quite well because it is such a nightmare.

My army was almost the same as you, black dragons, rune mages, paladins, inquisitors, champions.

First turn those archdemon halved my inquisitor, then pain mirror turn the tide. Ogre was kited by black dragons, i had to cast target on paladin because of those pesky hypnotize from beholders, and poison from axe thrower really hurts my pallies. Black dragons, champions, inquisitors and rune mages mop the floor.

Ice wall + dragon wall (with shovel) is my life safer, without both of them, that ogre will surely butcher all my armies.

I agree with enough crowd control this can work, although even then, I would almost rather use debuff/buff. With sooo many thorns, and since thorns are sooo low attack rating, helplessness will result in a big damage boost. And ugh, the whole waiting for mana thing afterwards. I hate that.


Pygmy can buff damage by 66%, etc. I can probably 2X the damage of all thorns by casting one 6 mana helplessness.

If using elves, by using debuff, you'll leave much less room for error, thus you need more thinking, indeed thorns are scary with helplessnes, but the fact is different.

Better criple them with mass spells or summon dragon of chaos, elves doesn't excel at damage, they excel at crowd control, they weren't designed as a good combo for debuffer/buffer mage. This one allow you more room for error, thus less thinking and faster to win (turns needed to win).

Dragon of chaos and phoenix really loves the elves, their crowd control make them live much longer. Phoenix resurection, even if it's very weak, is very useful, because they need little resurection due to crowd control.

Ah, there that's why this new patch changes EVERYTHING for me. Dragon of Chaos, the former, laughable junky summon, makes it verrry possible to roll around with just dragons and rune mages.

Dragon of Chaos does partial astral damage, so he can wreck shop. Oil Mist weakens anti-fire enemies. It is pretty scary. Plague, Helplessness, etc, makes enemy dragons fall easily.

Not to mention, why is it that if you go Summon, you can't go other spells too? I have plenty of other spells, they are just mostly useless.

I would like to think I got better since I last played, but clearly the strategy is much better than I am. Considering I have played the SAME saved game twice, with different agendas (one was going for Demonic 100% Crit, yum), the other going for Dragons/Runes/Ancient Phoenix and Dragon of Chaos, the run with the new Dragon of Chaos is MUCH faster and smoother.

Put it this way, I demolished the last room of the Wizard Tower. Demolished. I was totally shocked. First try, just went in and wiped it all out. I usually have to do some reloads with some funky Phantom Rune Mage action and a few prayers.

I don't know why, it still doesn't work as good againts demons, i'd rather use other units rather than dragon of chaos, i mean i'd rather use other type of damage than partial fire damage. Still the dragon of chaos is indeed a good boost for summoner, he is the best summon in fact.

However, i prefer blasting those demons with mass spells + very high int than summoning dragon of chaos, that mass spells criple those demons much more quickly than dragon of chaos + phoenix combined, well, this is only againts demons though. Againts non demons, it seems that depends on army composition.

I can do the damage style, it just isn't efficient for me. I just see it as, I can do more damage with less mana, so why would I use the most mana expensive solution?

I only see it as useful if you cannot risk engaging your units directly. ala Solo Black Dragons facing enemy heroes early on and you don't have enough mana for summons.

That's why the summon is so good for me. It engages, damages, and distracts all in one. Battles are much faster for me in real time and in "game time" than if I did my old battling.

The Mage Summoner build has become the analogy of my Warrior Ranged Build (Porc flavored). Very smooth, very powerful. I can most definitely hodge podge other armies up, but <shrugs> I've played this game too many times to do that again.

I suggest you consider looking into the Dragon of Chaos again. The changes they did to him are FANTASTIC.

I used to rely on Phantom a lot in my previous mage games, now I rarely use it.

Well, that depends on your army composition.

Dragon of chaos is comparable to geyser/black hole in term of mana cost, ok in fact black hole is slightly higher in term of mana cost. But geyser or black hole does 2x more dmg to all enemies.

I agree, damage mage is used when you don't want to directly engage the enemy, but once again, that depends on your army composition.

Some army composition doesn't directly engage enemies but still do full damage to them. Well, i'm talking about elves crowd control.

Yeah i did try the new dragon of chaos in my new game (using scanner this time), i often used him till i got 65 int, and right now i have 65 int, i don't know why using 1x black hole is more quicker to win the battle than summoning him, almost the same mana consumption.

Basicaly it's like this, geyser/black hole first, then unit do the rest, and they stop them with crowd control whenever necessary.

But i don't know why dragon of chaos or phoenix is a very very good companion to elves user. Elves make them live much much longer, and your mage amelie will rarely need to cast another spell other than summon one of them or both, not to mention elves are one of the best summoner (dryad and druid).

I admit, the new change to summons made mage very fun to play. I just love how those summons work with elves without amelie intervention other than summoning them, thorns, bears, dragon of chaos, phoenix, 4 summons at once, not to mention bears and thorns aren't limited with charges, i guess this is a pure summoner army. I don't use other summoners (rune mage, royal griffin, demonologist etc) because it is best to bring crowd control and tank than using them, well, their summons is also not as strong as dryad/druid with same amount of leadership.

I'm also bored of using dragons (green/red/black).