Orcs on the March thread

[atlatea]

I might have to try the new patch if that is true.

Because i never complete even one composite set except the dragon toy and a ring (which is also a reward from defeating scrounger) .

[Mandea]

Originally Posted by ckdamascus

Hm, I just tried it (albeit only one round) and didn't seem to find anything too out of the ordinary.

You might have just been really lucky.

As of yet, I have never been able to complete the Madman Set, Knight Set, and Scale Set.

The other sets are either really common, or too junky for me to mention. I really wanted to see if I could pull off like 2 Belts of the Victors or something.

I'm really interested in pulling off the Madman Set, although perhaps one could argue it is sort of junky anyway. Haha.

And how do you explain never being so lucky in my other 10 times I finished AP/CW?
Scale set is one of those I completer, however playing with orcs and having ogre set (another nice set) I'd rather keep ogre set. I really don't think it's a coincidence and it's not so hard playing with the random generator to be more flexible (for the programmers I mean).

[Kings Bounty Hunter]

Still struggling. Been so long since i've used a Mage warrior and my damage spells are just not enough. No Phantom and No Resurrect. I think my army composition is wrong tbh, probably didn't dig up enough chests early on. mages,inq,druids,RD and Rune Mages/cyclops are my army. It's a shame RM are so weak, they really should cause more damage as they cost 15000

Might start again tbh as it's frustrating atm

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Mandea

And how do you explain never being so lucky in my other 10 times I finished AP/CW?
Scale set is one of those I completer, however playing with orcs and having ogre set (another nice set) I'd rather keep ogre set. I really don't think it's a coincidence and it's not so hard playing with the random generator to be more flexible (for the programmers I mean).

Bad luck. Probability and statistics. Some people get really lucky, some people don't.

I vaguely recall DG stating twinkling boots has a 1/15 games spawn rate or something. It has since improved in Crossworlds though (1.3.0). So, maybe what you are seeing is the Crossworld's item generator improvement.

Your sample set is already below the probability rating for at least ONE item.

You've completed the Scale Set. I have NEVER completed it in the equivalent of 70+ saved game scans, most of them in Crossworlds. No one argued it wasn't hard to reconfigure the randomness. Just that, if the game was truly re-jiggered to do that, I should see a Scale Set in the next 20 rolls.

That said, until I roll for 20-30 games, I can't say for sure. I'm too lazy to re-roll right now though, haha. Although, just some statistical and anecdotal evidences of the power of randomness before said 1.3.1 patch.

That said, Ogre Set is MUCH MUCH easier to complete now in Crossworld's than it was in Armored Princess, but that's before the 1.3.1 patch. That said, I still only completed it twice. How is that possible? Easy, they make the probability for some of the items much better. I almost always see at least ONE of the three items now. I rarely saw the club before Crossworlds. It has taken me more than 10 games to get the complete Ogre Set the second time.

Well, if there was a change, it probably occurred in Crossworlds, 1.3.0 as noted by DG. He noticed Twinkling / Slippery Cuirass has a much higher probability of spawning now, etc. It was in one of the older posts.

Also, Crosswolrld's FORCES the inclusion of Gift Bag Items from Armored Princess. Not sure if you used that Official mod or not, not that it would help your set items, just composites.

I have also noticed it does have a much higher spawn rate now. In the past, my mages could almost NEVER get slippery cuirass. Now, I have a much better item mix-up. In my last mage game, I got 2 dress of the mages, sandals of the martyr, magician's cowl, belt of the victor, slippery cuirass, etc. Yet, this was a saved game which I was gunning for 100% critical demon, so it has most of the items for that build too. This was a Crossworld's 1.3.0 game. The future games in 1.3.0 I rolled were CRAP in comparison.

My games are mostly item driven to create strange or ridiculous combinations, as such, I've re-generated maybe 70+ games and scanned all of them for content before playing them. My feel probably isn't as good as say DG who probably have an even larger sample set and probably KNOWS the random generator mechanics itself.

It took me QUITE a few tries to get the Princess Set (Fairy Girl Power) set to spawn, maybe about 20 alone. (ah conditional probability is so evil). I nearly gave up and waited for any other interesting set/combo to show up.

That said, sometimes I just look for decent item sets, and in some games I get really good combos, then sometimes I have a dry spell of like 15 games in a row with nothing but the worst items ever. I don't play them unless I'm in the mood for the ad-hoc game style.

I've only spawned Belt of the Victor twice, so I am really sad that the one dude who got TWO of them to spawn in a single game, might not have saved his initial saved game.

All I am saying is, if your sample set is only 10, then you may or may not ever see a really really good saved game get rolled. We need a much larger sample set, or analysis of the files (we got to ask DG how or where he looked at for this). Analysis of the files is probably preferable and conclusive.

Sample set analysis is tedious.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by Kings Bounty Hunter

Still struggling. Been so long since i've used a Mage warrior and my damage spells are just not enough. No Phantom and No Resurrect. I think my army composition is wrong tbh, probably didn't dig up enough chests early on. mages,inq,druids,RD and Rune Mages/cyclops are my army. It's a shame RM are so weak, they really should cause more damage as they cost 15000

Might start again tbh as it's frustrating atm

The Ancient Phoenix and Dragon of Chaos summoner style only really STILL works (up to Reha so far, but they can withstand a few hits from Ktahu.), if you have Belt of the Victor. Without it, ugh, you start losing the mojo around Elon. Still doable though.

I'm telling you, direct damage spells is NOT the way to go for mages in Impossible Disable, debuff, distract, is key. Summon is good too if used properly. That said, a well placed Ancient Phoenix does about the equivalent of up to 18 flaming arrows for the cost of 7 flaming arrows, draws aggro, provides a tank, burns up to 3 enemies, and can RESURRECT a red dragon. Why would anyone ever cast flaming arrow again with that sort of power is beyond me.

All mages have HORRIBLE HORRIBLE damage per leadership. Rune Mages are not meant for damage. They are there to distract the enemy with Illusions or to Sheep the enemy.

If you don't have 17+ magic runes, and 20ish mind runes sitting around, I wouldn't bother using them at all. A shame you don't have Phantom though, but I did ok by splitting the Rune Mages into two stacks to double the odds of sheeping.

Can you find any other damage dealer unit in your mix? Druids and inquisitors are so weak.

You do want a high initiative unit so you can get the jump on the enemy, even if that unit doesn't attack immediately. I guess reds are somewhat fast though.

If you can find Black Dragons, use them with the reds. Rune Mages can revive Black Dragons.

You want to take advantage of shoot-through-no-retaliation that dragons can do.

You can use similar tactics with the Ancient Phoenix and Dragon of Chaos (have Ancient Phoenix hit the weak enemy next to a strong enemy to get a cheap hit).

You might also be at the stage where you need to throw up Ball of Lightning a bit more for added offensive power, I know I forgot to use this in the mid game.

You can use Pygmy, Helplessness, Oil Mist to help hurt the enemy more. You might find it does more equivalent damage per mana than Flaming Arrow.

Also, consider raising your rage to increase rage generation speed if you got so many summoners.

[atlatea]

Regarding set, i think at least 2 or 3 set always completed for most people in CW.

But even if you don't have the set, another item that compensate for it usually 90% spawn. In my case, whenever i don't have scale set, slipery cuiras and twinkling always spawn, especially slippery, and both of them often spawn together.

Though i never complete even composite set other than dragon toy (just once), and scrounger ring (twice).

Maybe it's just luck.

Regarding mage, direct damage spells is worth if you manage to at least score 50 int, best if you have 70 int, +spell dmg arties, destruction 3, just cast 2 black hole/geyser and most enemies at impossible will eat dirt. Or if you like, stack astral resistance and mana (minimum of 90 mana), have red/green dragon, then cast armageddon, then time back, most enemies should be very weakened, another armageddon will instantly wipe them and you incur loss.

There are no class that can win a fight in just 2 or 3 turn without losses except mage offensive spell caster type.

Downside is you need to scan your saves to achieve very high int and you need to rest after a battle to recover your mana. But really, winning battles in impossible in 2 or 3 turn is awesome.

[jake21]

Yea; so far no sets in my 1.3.1 game. All island but one explored. Btw I've gotten a few knight set and scale set (scale set is the most common for me) but I'm not conv. the physical reduction of the set works. (I do not include sets like victor belt since you get the entire piece. Btw there is a bug that if you disassemble some sets and have partial pieces it will not let you reassemble (this has happened once or twice but not always). The one item i've gotten a couple of play through (but not this one) is that ring that deos massively good against demons - made the final fight a walk through.

Originally Posted by ckdamascus

Hm, I just tried it (albeit only one round) and didn't seem to find anything too out of the ordinary.

You might have just been really lucky.

As of yet, I have never been able to complete the Madman Set, Knight Set, and Scale Set.

The other sets are either really common, or too junky for me to mention. I really wanted to see if I could pull off like 2 Belts of the Victors or something.

I'm really interested in pulling off the Madman Set, although perhaps one could argue it is sort of junky anyway. Haha.

[Mandea]

Originally Posted by ckdamascus

Bad luck. Probability and statistics. Some people get really lucky, some people don't.

(

No, you're absolutely wrong. It's not about which sets it's about completed sets. I'm an engineer, coincidences don't cut it for me especially when I played this game for so long. There is no statistics that confirms what you say.

And besides I dont' get it, is it so hard for you to accept that I may be right, just because you don't get a specific set? THAT is bad luck. Is it so hard to understand the programmers tweaked a little bit the random generator? Diablo 2 had the same problem, they know it and they've already said it's been taken care of (I am referring to Blizzard of course). It definitely has to to do with the patch.

[Kings Bounty Hunter]

19 blood sharmans do 1450 dmg to my cyclops

Also, how can two, yes two BShamans do 883 dmg lol

farce

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by atlatea

Regarding set, i think at least 2 or 3 set always completed for most people in CW.

But even if you don't have the set, another item that compensate for it usually 90% spawn. In my case, whenever i don't have scale set, slipery cuiras and twinkling always spawn, especially slippery, and both of them often spawn together.

Though i never complete even composite set other than dragon toy (just once), and scrounger ring (twice).

Maybe it's just luck.

Regarding mage, direct damage spells is worth if you manage to at least score 50 int, best if you have 70 int, +spell dmg arties, destruction 3, just cast 2 black hole/geyser and most enemies at impossible will eat dirt. Or if you like, stack astral resistance and mana (minimum of 90 mana), have red/green dragon, then cast armageddon, then time back, most enemies should be very weakened, another armageddon will instantly wipe them and you incur loss.

There are no class that can win a fight in just 2 or 3 turn without losses except mage offensive spell caster type.

Downside is you need to scan your saves to achieve very high int and you need to rest after a battle to recover your mana. But really, winning battles in impossible in 2 or 3 turn is awesome.

I suppose. I guess I hate the waiting afterwards. I can try it again, as this one saved game I have has tons of intellect!

But, for the hard battles, dealing 9-10K damage to every single stack still doesn't cut it.

Actually, my Warrior can win the Impossible Battles with smoother end game play, which is what made me so sad that mages couldn't do the smooth game play with no waiting! With the warrior, I would have to intentionally delay finishing the battle just so I can pick up the treasure chests.

I mean, put it this way. I've tried doing the Black Hole Blitz against Scrounger. Did NOT fare so well. Double Pump Geyser, no go either. Pygmy Black Hole... poo.

But, I didn't do the invisible trick though! If I do though, then the raw offense is merely just icing on the cake.

And any battle where the 9-10K damage per stack would have won the battle could have easily been replicated with the Warrior Ranged Army, with zero mana recovery required.

@King's Bounty Hunter
Is it the Power of the Horde? I think it depends on how many remaining Porc units are on the field, and it deals magic damage. (He has another astral attack one, but I doubt he could deal that much damage with just 2). Yeah, Blood shaman are nasty guys and in some ways harder to deal with than the Goblin Shaman since I hate bringing a tank up that close to the Blood shaman with Target. I really hate how Cyclops are so hard to recover, not even Rune Mages can do it.


@Mandea
I wonder if you read my entire post. If you are really an engineer, it surprises me you don't have more test trials to prove your case. I only brought up the Scale Set case to show that things are truly random for both good cases and bad. All I said was

- "maybe it is true" and that I need to do more tests to confirm
- I can't find DG's post on it, maybe it was another member who knew the drop rates and how to find them, which would conclusively decide -- e.g. it might actually be in the crossworld's world game editor.
- If after 70 games, I wasn't able to get certain items, clearly, it is possible to find a good item in the 71st run, as others have completed it too. e.g. randomness/luck/personal experience is not really a measure of the probability distribution.
- I've had bad item distribution for 15 games in a row before.
- Crossworld 1.3.0 improved Set Completion for me, I tested quite a few games here, possibly 50+.