4.10 Support & Bug Reporting

[Ernst]

The level flight of the aircraft depends on fuel, ammunition (C.G moves slightly), speed, altitude etc. Stop complaining about level flight and learn how to trim your aircraft. The aircraft, even the noobiesfire, do not fly alone.

Sometimes time i think the guys would like to take off, put the legs above the table, the hands behind the head and then light a cigarrete and smoke while the aircraft flies... Maybe you would like to read a book or go to the kitchen and make a snack.

[kestrel79]

I don't know if this is new in 4.10 but I noticed when using the nav lights during the day this very bright, whiteish blue light shines in the cockpit and all over the wings of the plane during the day...but when I do a night mission there is no light at all shining from the nav lights.

They are just nav lights I doubt they would be that bright during the day at not reflect off the plane at night.

[Tempest123]

Just a flying note for people citing the downward trim needed on a spitfire to fly level:

-Airfoils gain lift the faster they travel through the air (this is how an airplane is able to take off in the first place), how much lift is based on a number of things including the type of airfoil and shape and area of the wings

-The faster an airplane goes, the more it wants to climb, and the more downward trim is necessary to take the pressure off the control column. (to a point, at very high speeds, shock waves form and this is different, but this is beyond "normal" flight speeds, and usually occurs to piston aircraft only in a dive, and depends on the airfoil shape, ex. p-38.)

-As an airplane slows down, the opposite is true, thus more back pressure is needed, and thus nose up trim.

-As such an airplane in high speed level flight has a nose level angle depending on the aircraft, and in slow level flight an aircraft has a nose up angle. The slower an aircraft travels (i.e the lower the thrust), the greater the Angle of Attack its wings need to hit the air to maintain the same lift and level flight. The Angle of Attack can only be increased to a certain point, beyond that the air separates from the airfoil, becomes turbulent and the wing stalls, no matter what the speed. This is why you can stall a P-51 in a high speed turn (maximum AoA exceeded), do a "snap roll" in a Fw-190, and also the reason the 109 has slats (to keep the air from separating away from the wing surface, thus delaying a stall).

-Many computer simulations don't model this correctly, or if they do it is at least partially. In cruise flight, each change in power setting requires re-trimming the aircraft to relieve the control forces.

-The behavior of the spitfire is normal, and surprisingly, this should also be the case with most of the other planes in the game. An aircraft can fly level at a range of attitudes depending upon its speed.

[MD_Titus]

Originally Posted by Ernst

The level flight of the aircraft depends on fuel, ammunition (C.G moves slightly), speed, altitude etc. Stop complaining about level flight and learn how to trim your aircraft. The aircraft, even the noobiesfire, do not fly alone.

Sometimes time i think the guys would like to take off, put the legs above the table, the hands behind the head and then light a cigarrete and smoke while the aircraft flies... Maybe you would like to read a book or go to the kitchen and make a snack.

get shot down by spits a lot?

that would be nice, especially for larger maps where you just want to climb out nice and steady, maybe nip to the loo, make a rollie etc. i've found that trimming the plane for a slight climb, with a bit of slip to counter the torque roll, whilst reducing throttle/pp a bit so the torque effect is a bit less to be quite effective. that or wedging a bit of card in the base of the stick to keep the wings level.

Originally Posted by Tempest123

Just a flying note for people citing the downward trim needed on a spitfire to fly level:

-Airfoils gain lift the faster they travel through the air (this is how an airplane is able to take off in the first place), how much lift is based on a number of things including the type of airfoil and shape and area of the wings

-The faster an airplane goes, the more it wants to climb, and the more downward trim is necessary to take the pressure off the control column. (to a point, at very high speeds, shock waves form and this is different, but this is beyond "normal" flight speeds, and usually occurs to piston aircraft only in a dive, and depends on the airfoil shape, ex. p-38.)

-As an airplane slows down, the opposite is true, thus more back pressure is needed, and thus nose up trim.

-As such an airplane in high speed level flight has a nose level angle depending on the aircraft, and in slow level flight an aircraft has a nose up angle. The slower an aircraft travels (i.e the lower the thrust), the greater the Angle of Attack its wings need to hit the air to maintain the same lift and level flight. The Angle of Attack can only be increased to a certain point, beyond that the air separates from the airfoil, becomes turbulent and the wing stalls, no matter what the speed. This is why you can stall a P-51 in a high speed turn (maximum AoA exceeded), do a "snap roll" in a Fw-190, and also the reason the 109 has slats (to keep the air from separating away from the wing surface, thus delaying a stall).

-Many computer simulations don't model this correctly, or if they do it is at least partially. In cruise flight, each change in power setting requires re-trimming the aircraft to relieve the control forces.

-The behavior of the spitfire is normal, and surprisingly, this should also be the case with most of the other planes in the game. An aircraft can fly level at a range of attitudes depending upon its speed.

the spitfire has always needed nose down trim to maintain level flight though, hasn't it? is the level of trim that much different?

[vparez]

The pitch trim, can be adjusted, only it is much more pronounced now, but ok...

I am much more worried about the roll which is un-trimmable right now in the Spitfire.

For people who fly a bit and fight in small dogfight arenas that is not really much of a hassle, but for people who fly a 2-3h long mission in SEOW and navigate over very long distances, this is a much bigger problem.

[Ernst]

Originally Posted by vparez

The pitch trim, can be adjusted, only it is much more pronounced now, but ok...

I am much more worried about the roll which is un-trimmable right now in the Spitfire.

For people who fly a bit and fight in small dogfight arenas that is not really much of a hassle, but for people who fly a 2-3h long mission in SEOW and navigate over very long distances, this is a much bigger problem.

If you have money rudder pedals are a nice solution. Most of the difficult is to try to counter sideslip in the joystick. Using the pedals you just need to hold your legs in a right position.

[Flanker35M]

S!

So people complain now when they actually have to fly the Sissyfire? It was a plane like the rest of them, without a fly-by-wire The trim tabs on ailerons, or any other control surface, were set to a certain speed where they kept the plane in a more or less trimmed state. Exceed this speed and it begins to roll/yaw/pitch and you need to counter it, either with trim if applicable or applying countering force with controls. This seems the case in 4.10m, which is good!

Same applies for Bf109 for example, it was trimmed with the aileron/rudder tabs to a certain speed, say 300km/h or cruise speed, where minimum input was needed. Many pilots state they needed to counter the changed trim especially as there were no pilot controlled rudder/aileron trims but only for elevator. In IL-2 you have always needed to fly the Bf109 due this, so if I need to fly a Sissyfire it is nothing different to me.

Just wait for SoW and we will need a brigade of Whambulances with the new FM if it is that complex as Oleg has stated. No more ridiculous planes on rails, which is good. US planes had the luxury of having all control surfaces trimmed and even boosted.

TD added some more pilot work and whining ensues. I wish all the planes would behave the same, requiring more pilot input so you can not just set the plane to fly and go eat lunch

[vparez]

Well I got pedals, but I am not seeing this roll as an issue of discomfort for me or anyone else, but I tend to think: would they build a fighter, that was supposedly very easy and pleasant to fly, and yet make him need control inputs throughout the flight?

Come on, which other plane in IL-2 needs constant control input at cruise conditions? I-16?

Now I really miss my "Spitfire Story" book that is back in my home country, but even in wiki you can find some things like this:

...After a thorough pre-flight check I would take off and, once at circuit height, I would trim the aircraft and try to get her to fly straight and level with hands off the stick ... Once the trim was satisfactory I would take the Spitfire up in a full-throttle climb at 2,850 rpm to the rated altitude of one or both supercharger blowers...

Edit: If TD finds the little tests I posted earlier useful, it would be great; otherwise I really don't want to bother here anymore with people who don't read whole posts, and just reply based on some keywords that tick them off.