Uniforms and ranks and medals!

[luthier]

Hello everyone,

As I'm sure everyone is aware, we're trying to break new ground in flight sims in every aspect of the game, including character customization. You've seen our highly-detailed animated pilot models and you've probably seen the wide range of customization options in a few Igromir videos.

We are continuing to expand on this feature. However we've realized that our own references are pretty limited and a lot of times we can't make sense between the written word and the historical photographs.

We'd like the player to be able to finetune generic uniforms to his individual taste or experience, with choices of rank, awards, and so on. However information we have is very limited. Moreover like I said historical photos often show things that do not seem to correspond to the rules.

So, for each of the playable air forces, RAF, Luftwaffe and Regia Aeronautica, we could use as much extensive information as possible on the following fronts. If anyone does not want to post this information here in the forum, please feel free to email me at luthier1@gmail.com

1. Country / Regiment / other group identifiers, such as RAF shoulder title patches. What were the various options?

2. Rank insignia. Can't find any information on what type of dress needed to have what type of insignia. Also we're seeing a seemingly random assortment of it on photos, especially on RAF personnel i.e. we're either not getting the system at all, or a lot of it seemed to be optional in combat units.

3. Awards. Again, what type of uniform would have what displayed in combat?

4. Any other badges or insignia worn by aircrews.

We would really appreciate as much detailed information as possible. We'd like to give you all the possible historical options to make your virtual alter ego as unique and personalized as you want him to be.

[SlipBall]

I will do some research...just amazing the extent of the details that are lost to time

[bf-110]

Insignia,ranks and etc in the pilot models??
OMG,the models will be ultra complex!

That´s going to be interesting!

[ATAG_Dutch]

phillip.ed is your man for RAF uniform and equipment information, although it's a real minefield.
Personal preference played a large part.
'Shoulder title patches' were utilised for commonwealth pilots from Canada, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Rhodesia etc, but not for indigenous uk pilots.
I'm not sure about Ireland (Eire).
Most pilots with experience lost their collar and tie and wore a silk scarf for lubrication when turning the head.
Some wore flying boots, some wore shoes for 'feel'.
Some wore Irvine Jackets, some didn't.
Some wore silk inner gloves and gauntlets, some just wore silk inners.
Some wore goggles for fire protection, some didn't because they distorted vision and reduced field of view.
Most wore 'Mae West' Lifejackets, especially when flying over the channel.
Some ran for their aircraft wearing pyjamas with an Irvine Jacket over the top.

Here's a useful link with many country's insignia;

http://www.ww2wings.com/wings/britai...insignia.shtml

And this is the current RAF rank key, which is mostly unchanged as far as I'm aware;

http://www.raf.mod.uk/organisation/ranks.cfm

Uniform tunics would carry ribbons of any awards above the left breastpocket, and would mostly be DSO, DFC for officers or DFM for NCO's.

I not aware of any rank or award being shown on either sidcot flying overalls or Irvine jackets, only on uniform tunics which were worn in battle by some.

Unfortunately I don't know anything about Luftwaffe habits!

Hope the above is useful.

I'm amazed you're going into this much detail, but it's most welcome. Thanks.

[csThor]

For the Luftwaffe the answer is: That depends on what the crew is wearing. Medals were to be worn on the standard uniform jacket or the leather jacket which was used by many fighter pilots. This means if the crewman/pilot doesn't wear a flightsuit above medals (which weren't that numerous, yet) would be visible. However if he wore a flightsuit no medals would be visible.

The same is true for rank insignia. The epaulettes and collar patches were only present on the standard uniform jacket, the leather jacket was often (or even mostly) modified to carry the epaulettes but not the collar patches.
On flightsuits none of these were present and rank was signified by simplified patches on the upper sleeve.

Edit: Additionally some units which bore a traditional name were entitled (required?) to wear a cuff title on the right sleeve. Units, cuff titles and application guide can be found here: http://www.xs4all.nl/~rhorta/jgcuff.htm

[peterwoods@supanet.com]

RAF Aircrew badges worn on No 1 or No 2 (Battledress). Not worn on Irvine jackets or other flying suits at that time.

[peterwoods@supanet.com]

sorry missed one out.

[Former_Older]

Fascinating concept

I realize that there are many, many dedicated and knowledgeable simmers and enthusiasts here. However, consider for a moment that there are people whose passion and interest have been uniforms of various military organizations since before flight sims were on PCs; their interest is this specific slice of detail

I know that the search for information will not be limited to this forum, or even to the internet. But when I read this title, I immediately thought of a website I frequent, which deals with US militaria. I realize that this website will not be critical for the development of the first installment of the simulation. But it sprang to mind because of the depth of understanding and knowledge that certain members there have for things like uniforms. Some have been collecting and researching since the 1960s; that's a lot of experience! These are the sort of people that can tell the era that a shoulder or sleeve insignia served in by the way it looks, even if to the casual observer it looks identical to one made decades later- look, they post, this is WWII vintage because of the way the stitching joins the image to the writing here and here, they will say, and maybe add that it was only used after such and such a date. This sort of in-depth knowledge is not unusual among those people

I am sure that there are enthusiasts of this kind who participate in online forums and the like, who specialize in German, British, Italian, Polish, French, etc etc uniforms and dress regulations and practices of the second world war

So members here, if you know of such places, or even yet, if you participate there, I am sure that a wealth of information is literally right at your fingertips

[philip.ed]

Battledress wasn't worn!!!! (unless you count Brian Lane wearing a prototype version...)
They wore their No.1 Service Dress (SD) uniforms.
I'd love to help you out again, Luthier and Oleg, but I am just too busy. If I ever have the time, I'll e-mail Oleg (if his Oleg is still the same as it was around a year ago)
Other forum members are also collectors, and so I'm sure if they have the time and see this, they may be able to help.

Good luck.

[Fenrir]

Hi Luthier,

One quick notice; it was very unusual for RAF fighter pilots to fly in their Sidcot sheepskin jackets: most found them too bulky in the cockpit and on occasion the collar was a downright menace - you'd turn your head to check your 5 or 7 for bandits and find yourself staring straight at close range at a fluffy sheepskin!

Most photographs of the era show the fighter pilots wearing their No.1 Service Dress, no neck tie and top shirt button undone with silk scarf, Mae West and flying boots.

Certainly the odd fighter pilot did festoon himself in said Sidcot but they are the exception rather than the norm. On bombers however, I'd expect it to be a different story.