Anyone go through all the Wizard Tower?

[atlatea]

Regarding loss, i think that it's only natural to have losses, because the developer also planned this path (the other being no loss), if not, they won't give you massive amount of unit for restock. And losses never affect final score (it's losing a battle that affect it not casualties of the battle).

Yup, the most hated thing about no loss is the limit of troop choice. I begin to accept losses (though i try to minimize it) in favor of much more variety of troops, that's why i choose paladin with resurection, so as you said, virtual losses, still count as casualties but i don't lose any troops. But this easily gives me the freedom to use full troop with any troops i want as long as i have target, stoneskin/divine armor and a tank/sometimes secondary tank (well, againts lv 5 some other spells are needed as well). And i think all races have tank, though i usually bring paladin for mass resurect.

Currently most of my games rules are blind game (must not use KBScanner), no map kiting at all (to forces me to use variety of units), limiting reloading (save n reload must be kept at minimum), and finish the game as fast as possible. Not using KBScanner means i must plan according to random situation, and this is the hardest obstacle in my game, though it's the best part of my game.

[ckdamascus]

Originally Posted by atlatea

Regarding loss, i think that it's only natural to have losses, because the developer also planned this path (the other being no loss), if not, they won't give you massive amount of unit for restock. And losses never affect final score (it's losing a battle that affect it not casualties of the battle).

Yup, the most hated thing about no loss is the limit of troop choice. I begin to accept losses (though i try to minimize it) in favor of much more variety of troops, that's why i choose paladin with resurection, so as you said, virtual losses, still count as casualties but i don't lose any troops. But this easily gives me the freedom to use full troop with any troops i want as long as i have target, stoneskin/divine armor and a tank/sometimes secondary tank (well, againts lv 5 some other spells are needed as well). And i think all races have tank, though i usually bring paladin for mass resurect.

Currently most of my games rules are blind game (must not use KBScanner), no map kiting at all (to forces me to use variety of units), limiting reloading (save n reload must be kept at minimum), and finish the game as fast as possible. Not using KBScanner means i must plan according to random situation, and this is the hardest obstacle in my game, though it's the best part of my game.

Actually, that was always my main driver for no-loss. Unit replenishment and gold.

First time I played on Impossible, I ran out of gold and was like... what the? Couldn't buy artifacts, etc.

So, now it is built into my brain to always do that since sometimes my army build won't be the right one, and I have to rebuy an army.

A lot of the times, there are key units that are simply not available to satisfy your leadership, even if I had the money. e.g. like only 4 trolls in existance, etc.

Sacrifice isn't always an option nor fun. At least now with "trophy / training" the options are more open.

Just curiously enough, what new units have you opened yourself up to by using the Paladin and his Mind Skill: Resurrection?

Since the resource situation and the possibility of re-tooling an army is still there, but you are still resurrecting most units anyways for nearly no-loss, what unit are you using to really take advantage of that?

I do find that even though I am not really using the "resurrection" factor of the Mind Skill: Resurrection, that the bonus conferred to my Paladins and Rune Mages is quite nice coupled with the high defense build AND very high damaging units.

I was originally slating my demoness for it, but she is simply too slow. If only she was faster, since her stats are amazing when combining Agvares and the Princess Set + Wedding Dress.

I used to like blind games, but the funny thing is, I found myself even MORE forced into a set of the limited key units anyways. I know it seems counter-intuitive.

Mostly because, I can't find or use the less common troops, so I end up gravitating to the usual crew. I can't usually get rid of the Paladin Unit unless I go heavy level 5s and rune mages. Haha.

Also, only after certain item combinations are achieved, do some units become far more viable.

Lately, I have been trying to think of nearly overpowered combinations, then trying to make them supposedly work. Who would have thought about using Goblins, Orc Veterans, and Paladins to bring down Driller? No-losses too!

Shooters weren't so popular either for a while, but I saw one guy did it, and I tried to work it in.

I usually like playing for speed. If I take over 30 rounds to win in a tedious manner, I feel really bad and depressed due to boredom.

Now I am using Lake Fairies as my primary killer since I have the Princess Set. I have to say, I am really impressed so far. I doubt they will make it through the bosses though, but who knows. I'll definitely give it a whirl when I get to it though.

[crbcpu]

Here's an easy way I found to beat the final incarnation of the Caretaker as a Mage:

Round 1
- Level 2 Soul Drain the Demonologists (Since only 20 mana, can still cast again in the same round)
- Cast Black Hole

Round 2
- Cast Calm Rage to convert rage to mana
- Cast Black Hole

Round 3
- Cast spells as needed

Intellect was in the 50s and I was doing at least 7k damage per cast of Black Hole and it only took a few rounds to beat him.

Hope this helps.

[atlatea]

Actually, that was always my main driver for no-loss. Unit replenishment and gold.

First time I played on Impossible, I ran out of gold and was like... what the? Couldn't buy artifacts, etc.

So, now it is built into my brain to always do that since sometimes my army build won't be the right one, and I have to rebuy an army.

A lot of the times, there are key units that are simply not available to satisfy your leadership, even if I had the money. e.g. like only 4 trolls in existance, etc.

Sacrifice isn't always an option nor fun. At least now with "trophy / training" the options are more open.

Just curiously enough, what new units have you opened yourself up to by using the Paladin and his Mind Skill: Resurrection?

Since the resource situation and the possibility of re-tooling an army is still there, but you are still resurrecting most units anyways for nearly no-loss, what unit are you using to really take advantage of that?

I do find that even though I am not really using the "resurrection" factor of the Mind Skill: Resurrection, that the bonus conferred to my Paladins and Rune Mages is quite nice coupled with the high defense build AND very high damaging units.

I was originally slating my demoness for it, but she is simply too slow. If only she was faster, since her stats are amazing when combining Agvares and the Princess Set + Wedding Dress.

I used to like blind games, but the funny thing is, I found myself even MORE forced into a set of the limited key units anyways. I know it seems counter-intuitive.

Mostly because, I can't find or use the less common troops, so I end up gravitating to the usual crew. I can't usually get rid of the Paladin Unit unless I go heavy level 5s and rune mages. Haha.

Also, only after certain item combinations are achieved, do some units become far more viable.

Lately, I have been trying to think of nearly overpowered combinations, then trying to make them supposedly work. Who would have thought about using Goblins, Orc Veterans, and Paladins to bring down Driller? No-losses too!

Shooters weren't so popular either for a while, but I saw one guy did it, and I tried to work it in.

I usually like playing for speed. If I take over 30 rounds to win in a tedious manner, I feel really bad and depressed due to boredom.

Now I am using Lake Fairies as my primary killer since I have the Princess Set. I have to say, I am really impressed so far. I doubt they will make it through the bosses though, but who knows. I'll definitely give it a whirl when I get to it though.

We go off topic.... well, here we go.

I do blind games (without save scanner) and no map kiting. Well i agree, paladin is truly irreplacable, i never able to get rid of this unit, ok, againts non hero and non boss enemy i can easily manage without this guy. I hate long battle too, more than 15 turn is already very boring.

I'm doing no loss untill i get resurection 3, but if good lv 4 artifact spawn in the early 4 island, i'm usually run out of gold too. Until i get resurection 3, i end up with droids (both type), rune mage, green dragon (from rusty), archmage, inquisitor, cyclop or troll (if i'm lucky to get these guys in the first 4 islands)

After i got resurection 3, the combination of units depends on artifacts and spells available, yet if i have target spell, any combination can work with 1 tank (some situations require secondary tank) and 1 resurector (depends on situation) as irreplacable unit, though i usually end up with 1 resurector tank a.k.a paladin and the rest of the crew are heavy damage unit that is either ranged unit or unit that have no retaliation (be it from skill or ability) or unit that has good resistance (depends on the enemy available). That being said, best spells for this are disabler type (like target, fear, blind, pygmy, sheep, etc), especially target, it's really no brainer, just cast target on toughest tank available, and the rest of the crew deal with damage dealing. Pet dragon stone wall also proves to be very useful, contrary to most peoples said that it's the most useless pet dragon ability (why? well for example it can limit enemy forces option of attack), if miss martha sold shovel early (which i tend to buy because of its nice bonus to chest digging), it become much more powerful (7500 health at max level) .

Though againts enemy that is mostly lv 5 unit, target won't work, but other spells and pet dragon (stone wall, dragon dive, other dmg skill) exist that can be used to manipulate those lv 5 so that only your desired unit that will be resurected by paladin class resurection are the one that receive the most damage.

That being said, the one that will be resurected by paladin class skill is not always the tank (depends on the situation), just do the best cource of action to ensure that you will have virtual no loss (only 1 type of stack that suffer casualties).

I usually get resurection 3 by the time i arrive in verona, and untill i get paladin (in temple of love), i avoid heavy int hero, because they love to cast insane AoE spells (like geyser). So i use human army most of the time (with 1 or 2 lv 5 stack) until i arrive in montero. Which unit i use depends on the available spells and artifacts in verona. But it usually beetwen these guys: guardmen, knight, horsemen, royal griffin, archmage, runemage, inquisitor, demonologist, druid, bowmen, another lv 5 unit (can be troll or red/green dragon, these guys rarely appears though especially red dragon), faun with any plants (rarely appear), etc. Inqusitor and rune mage are often irreplaceable (sometimes archmage too), since they're the only non random option for resurecting, though it depends on the randomize results.

After i get montero, paladin, giant and canoner might come into the stage, this also depends on the situation, though i love canoner for its heavy ranged damage and giant abilities to easily fill up rage, as for paladin, no need to explain. After montero, things get much more easier, because i have 2 option now, elon or dersu, i get the insane veteran orc (a type of unit which is suited for this strategy) from dersu, and all types of elves from elon (though i usually stuck with dryad, hunter, elf, unicorn, faun, ancient ent, ent, druid, lake fairy/forest fairy, and yep, no werewolf). Usually i end up with human/elf mix or pure elf (depends on situation), yep, i'm no fan of demon, goblin and undead (because of eviln, easy games is never my taste), though i might try demon after i finish my elf, since this demon is a very good candidate for this strategy. As with elves, divine armor is a must have, especially if ancient ent/ent is used, lest those dragons will toy with you.

Girl power army also work (since three of them are heavy no retaliation damage dealer (the only problem is the dmg is too concentrated towards magic), but the same thing applies, need a tank and disabler (be it units, spells or pet dragon). As for shooter crew, this also works, need at least 1 tank and disabler, by shooter, it's not always archer type, in this case, shooter is any long range unit.

[Minecontrol]

Originally Posted by atlatea

Yup, the most hated thing about no loss is the limit of troop choice. I begin to accept losses (though i try to minimize it) in favor of much more variety of troops, that's why i choose paladin with resurection, so as you said, virtual losses, still count as casualties but i don't lose any troops. But this easily gives me the freedom to use full troop with any troops i want as long as i have target, stoneskin/divine armor and a tank/sometimes secondary tank (well, againts lv 5 some other spells are needed as well). And i think all races have tank, though i usually bring paladin for mass resurect.

They should have increased the power of the resurrection spell, it is ridiculous that no matter how much int you have your stack of paladins will probably still be able to resurrect more.... Near the end of the game during recovery phase in difficult battles like Scrounger i was using Turn Back Time to regenerate my Paladin skill for the resurrections. They also should have made it possible to extend it to include level 5 creatures (say make this dependable on level of magic light (the resurrection helper skill in the mage tree) so that lvl 3 magic light allows lvl 5 resurrection) let order level + intelligence mainly dictate amount of hp restored.

Paladins are crazily overpowered so in any noloss it is hard to have to leave them out of it.

[atlatea]

But then again the developer never intended it to be a no loss game.

If you want prove, First, why the hell they give you so many replenishments for your loss. Second, no loss or not doesn't affect final score.

So after doing many no loss walkthrough, i begin to realize that maybe those (including me) who do a no loss are folks that have very plenty of time or maybe they're more foolish than the one that doesn't care about no loss but still trying to keep losses to minimum.