Real World BoB Hurricane Pilot's views on SOW

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by winny

The only thing the BoB veteran needs to remember is that if you flew up behind a gaggle of heinkels like that you'd get killed. Not what day it was, or what he was wearing or what coulor the tracer was.. This thread is confusing memories and experience. Is anyone here arguing against what the guy said? I'm pretty sure you'd only need to see a friend killed once for it to register.. and for you not to forget it.

Exactly. Although, just to be pedantic, he might need to be able to distinguish between friendly and enemy tracer. I do this all the time in Il-2.
I'm not sure if this was the case in the BoB.

It's all quite interesting really.
I also think that, for a sim, a veteran would be more concerned about the gameplay, rather than the eye-candy.

Quite an interesting debate.

[winny]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

Exactly. Although, just to be pedantic, he might need to be able to distinguish between friendly and enemy tracer.

I could be wrong.. but I think the enemy tracer are the ones coming towards you (in most cases)

(Note: In all cases treat any tracer coming your way as something you should probably avoid) I underlined the important bits.

It's kinda like showing an F1 game to an F1 Driver I suppose.. They're probably thinking... pah, nothing like it!

I actually liked the Veterans comment because it showed his mind still worked on a tactical level above anything else. It shows the first thing he thought of when he saw it was about the actual practicallity of it all, not the look, but the what do you do when you are in that situation. He was never gonna say "that's the best graphics I've ever seen", was he? Anyway respect to him for showing that old men still think like young men.

[Avimimus]

Good observation.

Come to think of it, I've seen this in a few other accounts of Veterans being shown sims. For us simmers it is a game - a game we can push towards being an art. But for them it was (and remains) anything but a game.

Practicality deserves a great deal of respect, especially for the causes behind it.

[Skoshi Tiger]

Check out from about 6:25 for some spiffing tactics to use against He111

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0-fV...eature=related

Unfortunately I can't listen to the comentators voice without thinking of Monty Python!

Cheers!

[Rodolphe]

...

Originally Posted by Skoshi Tiger

Check out from about 6:25 for some spiffing tactics to use against He111

Cheers!

So bad Vulching this "gear extended He111".







Euh ! They had the "Flat" cloud base. Right !




...

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Rodolphe

...




So bad Vulching this "gear extended He111".


...

yeah hopefully the distinctive way the gear dropped when the hydraulics were damaged on the he111 will be modeled in the game.

[Blackdog_kt]

Originally Posted by winny

I could be wrong.. but I think the enemy tracer are the ones coming towards you (in most cases)

(Note: In all cases treat any tracer coming your way as something you should probably avoid) I underlined the important bits.

It's kinda like showing an F1 game to an F1 Driver I suppose.. They're probably thinking... pah, nothing like it!

I actually liked the Veterans comment because it showed his mind still worked on a tactical level above anything else. It shows the first thing he thought of when he saw it was about the actual practicallity of it all, not the look, but the what do you do when you are in that situation. He was never gonna say "that's the best graphics I've ever seen", was he? Anyway respect to him for showing that old men still think like young men.

Originally Posted by Avimimus

Good observation.

Come to think of it, I've seen this in a few other accounts of Veterans being shown sims. For us simmers it is a game - a game we can push towards being an art. But for them it was (and remains) anything but a game.

Practicality deserves a great deal of respect, especially for the causes behind it.

Actually, some years ago i came across a post on a forum (i think it was on the ubizoo) detailing how an IL2 player had his grandfather fly a sortie and what came out of it. I think it was in a thread about joystick sensitivity and the story where an RAF veteran frequented a virtual squad forum, got acquainted with the IL2 players, tried the simulator and gave then what he considered the settings that resulted in the most realistic control response.

Apparently another user's grandfather used to fly 109s for the Luftwaffe, so he convinced him to try out the settings proposed by the RAF guy and comment on them.
He set him up with the same sub-type he was flying back then, explained the controls to him and let him loose on the AI which consisted of some P-38s, expecting to hear how close the handling is to the real thing.

However, instead of commenting on anything like that the old guy just took to flying some of the most leisurely and calculated maneuvers his grandson had seen and it was still a natural to him after all these years (that's actually quite an indication that the FM and stick sensitivity settings were pretty much spot on however).

Happy to see his grandfather being comfortable with it and eager to see him score a kill, the guy is nevertheless a bit puzzled at how lazily his grandfather is flying while the AI opponents are throwing their P-38s all over the place, so he asks "why don't you close in and take a shot? you can out-maneuver them anyway". Well, the old guy replies "with the amount of turning he's doing, he'll be so tired in a minute or two that he won't be able to pull more than a couple of Gs, that's when i'll close in"

[philip.ed]

Originally Posted by winny

I could be wrong.. but I think the enemy tracer are the ones coming towards you (in most cases)

(Note: In all cases treat any tracer coming your way as something you should probably avoid) I underlined the important bits.

It's kinda like showing an F1 game to an F1 Driver I suppose.. They're probably thinking... pah, nothing like it!

I actually liked the Veterans comment because it showed his mind still worked on a tactical level above anything else. It shows the first thing he thought of when he saw it was about the actual practicallity of it all, not the look, but the what do you do when you are in that situation. He was never gonna say "that's the best graphics I've ever seen", was he? Anyway respect to him for showing that old men still think like young men.

yes, one would hope the tracer coming your way was from the enemy! But my point is that in Il-2, I have flown campaigns many times where the fight develops into a wide-spread dogfight. Sometimes I shoot one enemy plane down, realise I still have a fair amount of ammo and fuel left; can see another fight going on, so I will look at the tracer to see if it's enemy or friendly. It can be really helpful sometimes.