Pony talk

[Tempest123]

Great video Thor, that's some nice flying. Its pretty deadly if flown by an experienced pilot

[Romanator21]

You just need to spend more time in the P-51 and get to know its strengths.

The AI routines differ for each plane slightly (I believe Oleg had confirmed this sometime) and for some reason, the AI with the P-51 is particularly "stupid" - not attacking when the enemy on my six is right in front or him, for instance.

Using Il-2 Compare, the D is the fastest of the group, but not by much. The "problem" is that it's slow at accelerating so you have to be especially vigilant to not bleed off your speed. Try to fly it less like a Bf-109, and more like a P-38. Having a team-mate is very important in case you get in trouble.

I have been able to outrun almost anything in a P-51 if the trim is good. The only thing to give me a hard time (at low level btw) were La-7s and the dreadful I-185 type 71. I've outrun Spit25s without problem and have caught the "uber" Dora.

To me it seems that because the P-51 was on the winning side of the war, that it was some wonder-machine. People love to cite how Goerring apparently said something along the lines of, we've lost the war, after seeing P-51s over Berlin. I feel he would have said the same thing (if he ever did) if those were P-40s or Spitfires. It didn't matter how good the P-51 was - all that mattered was that the daylight bombers now had an escort for their entire trip to and from Germany, making it just that much harder for German pilots to shoot them down. That's it!

It doesn't have to be un-breakable, pull fancy maneuvers, tear wings off by lobbing huge cannon rounds - it just has to be fast and keep the interceptors at bay so the bombers can do their work.

Also, keep in mind by the time the P-51 was around, the Axis forces had already lost many of their best pilots and new recruits were being pressed into service with very abbreviated training. Allied pilots, especially American, had the luxury of a full-blown training cycle, and so were better off from the start.

There's this sort of "cult of personality" about the P-51 that I wish didn't have to be. I feel that it's causing this disappointment when people first fly it, and realize it's not a La-7.

All that said, I feel it's great online if flown carefully. (Thor's video is proof of that!)

I've not flown a real Mustang myself, but someone who did has said that while it's fast as it should be, some aspects of the handling are not quite the same.

If you test Ai vs. Ai I-16 type 24 is the best fighter of WW2

It would be interesting to note that a particular Brewster Buffalo has more kills attributed to it than any other airframe used in WWII

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Romanator21

You just need to spend more time in the P-51 and get to know its strengths.

The AI routines differ for each plane slightly (I believe Oleg had confirmed this sometime) and for some reason, the AI with the P-51 is particularly "stupid" - not attacking when the enemy on my six is right in front or him, for instance.

Using Il-2 Compare, the D is the fastest of the group, but not by much. The "problem" is that it's slow at accelerating so you have to be especially vigilant to not bleed off your speed. Try to fly it less like a Bf-109, and more like a P-38. Having a team-mate is very important in case you get in trouble.

I have been able to outrun almost anything in a P-51 if the trim is good. The only thing to give me a hard time (at low level btw) were La-7s and the dreadful I-185 type 71. I've outrun Spit25s without problem and have caught the "uber" Dora.

To me it seems that because the P-51 was on the winning side of the war, that it was some wonder-machine. People love to cite how Goerring apparently said something along the lines of, we've lost the war, after seeing P-51s over Berlin. I feel he would have said the same thing (if he ever did) if those were P-40s or Spitfires. It didn't matter how good the P-51 was - all that mattered was that the daylight bombers now had an escort for their entire trip to and from Germany, making it just that much harder for German pilots to shoot them down. That's it!

It doesn't have to be un-breakable, pull fancy maneuvers, tear wings off by lobbing huge cannon rounds - it just has to be fast and keep the interceptors at bay so the bombers can do their work.

Also, keep in mind by the time the P-51 was around, the Axis forces had already lost many of their best pilots and new recruits were being pressed into service with very abbreviated training. Allied pilots, especially American, had the luxury of a full-blown training cycle, and so were better off from the start.

There's this sort of "cult of personality" about the P-51 that I wish didn't have to be. I feel that it's causing this disappointment when people first fly it, and realize it's not a La-7.

All that said, I feel it's great online if flown carefully. (Thor's video is proof of that!)

I've not flown a real Mustang myself, but someone who did has said that while it's fast as it should be, some aspects of the handling are not quite the same.



It would be interesting to note that a particular Brewster Buffalo has more kills attributed to it than any other airframe used in WWII

From Wikipedia ...

Chief Naval Test Pilot and C.O. Captured Enemy Aircraft Flight Capt. Eric Brown, CBE, DSC, AFC, RN, tested the Mustang in RAE Farnborough, and noted:

"The Mustang was a good fighter and the best escort due to its incredible range, make no mistake about it. It was also the best American dogfighter. But the laminar flow wing fitted to the Mustang could be a little tricky. It could not by no means out-turn a Spitfire. No way. It had a good rate-of-roll, better than the Spitfire, so I would say the plusses to the Spitfire and the Mustang just about equate. If I were in a dogfight, I’d prefer to be flying the Spitfire. The problems was I wouldn’t like to be in a dogfight near Berlin, because I could never get home to Britain in a Spitfire!”

[T}{OR]

Originally Posted by Tempest123

Great video Thor, that's some nice flying. Its pretty deadly if flown by an experienced pilot

Thanks. I do miss the good old days.

SoW better come out soon.

EDIT:

Originally Posted by Romanator21

To me it seems that because the P-51 was on the winning side of the war, that it was some wonder-machine. People love to cite how Goerring apparently said something along the lines of, we've lost the war, after seeing P-51s over Berlin. I feel he would have said the same thing (if he ever did) if those were P-40s or Spitfires. It didn't matter how good the P-51 was - all that mattered was that the daylight bombers now had an escort for their entire trip to and from Germany, making it just that much harder for German pilots to shoot them down. That's it!

It doesn't have to be un-breakable, pull fancy maneuvers, tear wings off by lobbing huge cannon rounds - it just has to be fast and keep the interceptors at bay so the bombers can do their work.

Also, keep in mind by the time the P-51 was around, the Axis forces had already lost many of their best pilots and new recruits were being pressed into service with very abbreviated training. Allied pilots, especially American, had the luxury of a full-blown training cycle, and so were better off from the start.

There's this sort of "cult of personality" about the P-51 that I wish didn't have to be. I feel that it's causing this disappointment when people first fly it, and realize it's not a La-7.

^^ This, is what it is all about.

[WTE_Galway]

@TEMPEST123

You are correct that the fuselage tank historically caused directional stability problems and as a result was really more of a ferry tank, acrobatic style maneuvers were forbidden when it still contained fuel and that tank was meant to be emptied first.

HOWEVER I am pretty certain that fuselage tank was first fitted on the P51B and C so any in-game stability issues resulting from the fuselage tank should show up on those models as well.

[Romanator21]

However I am pretty certain that fuselage tank was first fitted on the P51B and C so any in-game stability issues resulting from the fuselage tank should show up on those models as well.

The B and C have the rear fuel tanks in game as well. To me they handle just like the D, but are not quite as fast (according to Il-2 compare). I really prefer the lines of the B over any other though.

[ElAurens]

Originally Posted by Romanator21

The B and C have the rear fuel tanks in game as well. To me they handle just like the D, but are not quite as fast (according to Il-2 compare). I really prefer the lines of the B over any other though.

And Romanator21 has just pointed out a major flaw in the B/C models. The early razor backed P 51s were the fastest versions to fly in combat. Typically about 20mph faster than a bubble top D model.

Also much is said about how much better the Merlin engine Mustangs are, because of their performance at altitude. It should be noted that the Mustang 1s that saw service with the RAF were the fastest aircraft in Europe below 15,000 ft. when they were put in service. The Allison P51s were not dogs.

[IceFire]

Originally Posted by ElAurens

And Romanator21 has just pointed out a major flaw in the B/C models. The early razor backed P 51s were the fastest versions to fly in combat. Typically about 20mph faster than a bubble top D model.

Also much is said about how much better the Merlin engine Mustangs are, because of their performance at altitude. It should be noted that the Mustang 1s that saw service with the RAF were the fastest aircraft in Europe below 15,000 ft. when they were put in service. The Allison P51s were not dogs.

Actually Romanator doesn't quite have it right. The P-51D is faster at low altitudes but the P-51B/C are the fastest (except the Mustang Mark III in game) Mustang available and peak at a higher top speed at a higher altitude than the P-51D. All according to IL-2 Compare.

However, if you're down lower then the P-51D is the faster plane. As far as I know this does represent reality with a reasonable level of accuracy (the B/C were tuned in one way and the D recieved a different supercharger tuning).

[Romanator21]

Maybe - I don't ever use boost except in extreme situations, so I wouldn't know what performance it can attain under those settings. At low altitude, boost does nothing but cook the engine, so it's best to leave it off no matter what.

The reason why the Mustang doesn't shine in IL-2 is because 99% if the time it's being flown in turning dogfights down in the mud. No matter how good the P-51 was in reality, it just couldn't do what some pilots demand of it.

The thing that I always consider to be the most important with the Mustang is the simple notion that the P-51B/C/D Mustang has similar power to the Spitfire IX (roughly 1500hp) but it's top speed and general performance is closer to that of the Spitfire XIV (at roughly 2000hp). Generally speaking...

This is very true. It weighs 7,640 lbs empty, while Spit Mk.9 weighs 5610 lbs empty. The engines have the same output of 1690 Hp. Yet the Mustang can go 30 mph faster than the Spitfire.

This shows just how aerodynamically refined the Mustang is, but it should be abundantly clear that with its weight it cannot accelerate like the Spitfire, cannot climb like one, and cannot be subjected to the same maneuvers - it will lose all its speed and become a sitting duck if you try. It's not a "do anything" plane in this sense, but it doesn't matter. Strategically, it was enough. Be miserly with her airspeed, and the Pony will treat you well.

This is the truth, like it or not the P-51 is a generation ahead of 1930's designs like the spitfire and 109 aerodynamically. Like has been mentioned it had so many advantages, steerable tailwheel by pulling the control stick, advanced aerodynamics, high quality construction and excellent cockpit and visibility.

The Fw-190 is another design which has these features and is very clean aerodynamically. I don't think the P-51 was "a generation" ahead of this and similar planes.

I suggest everyone who believes the Mustang is badly porked in IL-2 to play CFS-1 and Aces High II like I have. You may be surprised to find that it shares many characteristics with the Il-2 one:

1) Fast but slow to accelerate to top speed
2) Can't climb quickly and maintain high speed
3) Can't turn sharply and maintain high speed
4) "Glass jaw" engine that can be stopped with small-caliber rounds.
5) .50 cals take time to do work on a target - effective at convergence - causes opponents to bleed out rather than blow up.
6) Very unpopular with the majority of players who prefer turning fights and has been subject to claims of porking, etc.

The FM issues with the Mustang are minor, relatively speaking, comparable to the quirks in the FM of other planes. It would be great if fixed, but I don't think it will turn it into an uber online dog-fighter just like that.

[IceFire]

I really like flying the P-51 although I have noticed the D for a long time has been particularly prone to stalling where the other two weren't quite as much. The thing that I do get bothered by is the "history channel" mentality... I was there too and one point and considered the Mustang to be the real wonder fighter of the war. That's all that I had ever read about...

Reality is one of those things and it turns out the Mustang is an exceptional aircraft but it's not a physics defying wonder. It has it's advantages and it's disadvantages...

The thing that I always consider to be the most important with the Mustang is the simple notion that the P-51B/C/D Mustang has similar power to the Spitfire IX (roughly 1500hp) but it's top speed and general performance is closer to that of the Spitfire XIV (at roughly 2000hp). Generally speaking...

So when I think about it that way it affects how I fly the Mustang - the Mustang is a streamlined aircraft and I should do everything to maintain that streamlining. Any drag, extra weight, or battle damage will affect that overall top speed more than in a fighter that has more power at it's disposal. The Mustang favours being flown smoothly than roughly... You don't toss one around like a Yak-3. Fly it right and in many cases you will be close to untouchable... It's that good.