Friday 2010-10-01 Dev. update and Discussion

[Freycinet]

I think a couple of you neglect the fact that this sim actually has to be programmed and has to work with an acceptable number of frames per second on a typical high-end computer.

It isn't possible to just overlay a rendering of the cockpit with a rendering of the full view. Both of those need processor cycles to render and you can't just double processor cycles out of the blue.

Same with adding textures to the clouds. You can't just do that endlessly until you have a photographic rendering. Especially if you want the exact same clouds to be visible from all angles by 25 guys flying online. This is very different from an MSFS add-on hanging big flat photos of clouds up around you as you putter along on your own in a Cessna.

I'd say that before you think of suggesting something that will add complexity to SoW:BoB then try to consider which feature you would want left out. So, you'd have to post "I'd like some more textures in the cloud tops and - to compensate - I think we should give up rendering 50 bombers simultaneously and settle for 40 instead". This is very much the zero-sum game the programmers have to deal with every day.

The major reason why Oleg blew us out of the water with Il-2 was that he employed ingenious programming solutions like the layered textures for great expanses of forests and the twirling one-dimensional smoke for planes going down on fire. You can rest assured that there are a many more ingenious programming solutions in SoW:BoB, but it just isn't possible to keep adding complexity since there is a finite number of processing cycles to work with...

Apart from the finite resources inside the computer there is also the whole issue of a limited programmer team and a clock ticking down to the deadline. By keeping adding to the requests at this moment in time, I think a lot of people are just setting themselves up for a big let-down when they get the sim in their hands. It will be light-years ahead of any other combat sim, but still not live up to impossibly inflated expectations.

Ask yourself if you really want to be jaded and slightly disappointed when you fire up SoW:BoB for the first time, or if you want to fill with boyish joy at the wonderful world opening up to you? - I think it is pretty much up to yourself and to the - possible or impossible - expectations you carry with you.

[SlipBall]

Freycinet good post...memorable game play should be the main goal. Picture perfect may come down the road as hardware strengthens.

[Azimech]

Yes Freycinet, +1

[ElAurens]

Great post Freycinet. 100% spot on.

[brando]

Thank you, Freycinet.

It's good to hear a voice of logical reasoning in amongst the onslaught of requests for visual perfection and total accuracy. <S>

Brando

[Insuber]

Freycinet,

Well said. You argumented very well the opinion of many of us ...

[Baron]

+ 100

[philip.ed]

Freycinet, you neglect the fact that our views on how the sim should look are largely based around current models/sims. IMO, if SoW is to achieve graphically it should be the best in all departments (I'm focusing on graphics here) whilst your post sounds great, it is flawed in this sense.
For example, the current terrain doesn't look as good as RoF (or WoP although this is debateable). It may look different at Oleg's end, but from the shots shown to us that's my opinion. The grass and objects are completely different, they blew me away, but from a distance the terrain lacks realism IMO. I think this is due to the contrast of the tree colour with the texture colour, but also because the textures look quite low-res. I agree with the clouds; but whilst the texture may not need to be changed, the model of the clouds (IMO) is wrong, and based around my scientific evidence this is true. Editing the model should not be too much of a job I don't think, and in any case should not impact on FPS.
I think the FPS issue is a good point, but clearly in SoW it's the FM and DM models which will be limiting fps, as from what you've said they'll be impacting on the eye-candy available

An interesting concept; no doubt about that!

[Freycinet]

Most of the above posting was unintelligible to me, but I think I understood the last phrase:

Originally Posted by philip.ed

I think the FPS issue is a good point, but clearly in SoW it's the FM and DM models which will be limiting fps, as from what you've said they'll be impacting on the eye-candy available

I think there are some basic issues about making a flight sim that you don't understand.

Every single element of the sim takes processor cycles and therefore impacts FPS.

Rendering textures is one thing, FM, DM are other things, and several calculations and processes "under the hood" such as AI impact the fps as well. If we all had Craig supercomputers we could just pile it on, but we don't and we can't.

[philip.ed]

That's exactly what I meant! SoW seems so advanced, that it will probably limit how high we can turn the graphics up. My point is, the terrain we've seen looks worse than RoF, so if this is as high as we can turn it up without limiting the amount of planes etc then IMO this will mean that (in the short term) certain aspects of the game may not live up to everyone's expectations.
Of course, this may not be 100% true (as most of the game is still being worked on and will be post-release) so of course the terrain is by no means final. The same goes for the clouds too.