Nuklear bomb

[WTE_Galway]

I do have to worry about the morality and sanity of people that want to drop nuclear weapons on civilian targets in a game "for fun".

It reminds me of the controversy a few years back where some people wanted horses and other animals included in IL2 so they could fly around and shoot at them.

All I can say is I sincerely hope these same people never get a position of power in the Military or a national Government.

[AndyJWest]

Please, let's not get into a debate about whether or not the US should have dropped the bombs on Japan. Those bombs saved Allied soldier's lives...

If you don't want to debate something, don't make contentious assertions. This isn't a particularly sensible forum to debate the issue, and I've no particular wish to do so, but I see no reason to allow any old hogwash on side issues (i.e. nuclear power) to pass by without comment.

And by the way, Japanese 'manufacturing capacity' had already been crippled by the US submarine blockade. Military production at that point was more or less insignificant.

[Splitter]

A debate on another forum of your choice would be welcomed. Beyond that, I have edited this post.

Splitter

[jameson]

AJ, a study of the invasion of Okinawa, paying close attention to American and the Japanese losses and the response of the civilan population to the arrival of the American troops will give some idea why the bomb was dropped on Japan.
Extrapolate allied and Japanese losses there to the expected ones to be incurred invading the Japanese mainland, (Suggest a number).
To state that the bomb's use didn't save allied and Japanese lives would be somewhat perverse in that light.

[zauii]

It's still a game, i wouldn't mind if it was gory and gritty as well. At least we in the sim community should be mature enough to realize that it's sure a simulator but still a game/virtual reality..
in my opinion having moral standards there is just pathetic. I do enjoy violent games overall, blood and gore.. it sells and it entertains.. yet in reality i would never even consider hurting anyone unless it was my last resort. Media is a sad center peice that paints gamers as violent due to the games, which have already been proven, has about 0% effect on how you behave, it's all within your genes and childhood and how you were raised, not in a game like GTA.

[Hunden]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

If you don't want to debate something, don't make contentious assertions. This isn't a particularly sensible forum to debate the issue, and I've no particular wish to do so, but I see no reason to allow any old hogwash on side issues (i.e. nuclear power) to pass by without comment.

And by the way, Japanese 'manufacturing capacity' had already been crippled by the US submarine blockade. Military production at that point was more or less insignificant.

You complain about this not being the sensible forum to debate the issue, but you are the one in your first post on the first page to spew out your own Hogwash. And you have no particular wish to , BS You started this crap. Cheers

[Hunden]

Originally Posted by WTE_Galway

I do have to worry about the morality and sanity of people that want to drop nuclear weapons on civilian targets in a game "for fun".

It reminds me of the controversy a few years back where some people wanted horses and other animals included in IL2 so they could fly around and shoot at them.

All I can say is I sincerely hope these same people never get a position of power in the Military or a national Government.

Where are you people from? There aren't any real people [civilians] in this simulation. So you can't drop a pretend bomb on a pretend city but its ok to shoot down a pretend aircraft and watch the pretend pilot burn to death. I can't get away from you flaming liberals even in a war simulator. Don't you have something to protest somewhere. Cheers

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by Hunden

Where are you people from? There aren't any real people [civilians] in this simulation. So you can't drop a pretend bomb on a pretend city but its ok to shoot down a pretend aircraft and watch the pretend pilot burn to death. I can't get away from you flaming liberals even in a war simulator. Don't you have something to protest somewhere. Cheers

No, if you really get off on making big explosions and killing things ( and presumably also flying weird non historical Nazi UFO's and boasting about how elite you are online ) you are not playing a simulation you are just playing Quake/Halo in 3D. Or maybe Microsoft Explosion Simulator

There is no facility in the game to actual fight a tactical campaign using nuclear weapons. If there was then people wouldn't object so much, the nukes would have a point and using them effectively will be a challenge. Nor are their any historically accurate nuclear weapons, the modded nukes just make a bigger bang.

Therefore the only point in including nuclear weapons in the game seems to be so immature prats can get their rocks off imagining blowing stuff up like they see in the movies.


... and as far as Politics goes, this whole US fascination with the liberal/hippy versus fascist/christian/patriot argument that they like to bore the rest of the world with on forums is stupid ... from an outside perspective its easy to see their is no difference they are all flavors of the same species "American Politician" . Don't get uptight about politics it will just give you heartburn.

Originally Posted by Splitter

Julian: It is one of those misguided things about the war. Both sides thought, at times, that bombing civilians would would weaken their resolve and weaken the enemy's will to make war. I don't think that was ever successful.

Bombing industries was obviously a legitimate exercise and just as obviously worked. The problem was accuracy even when they were going after industrial targets. Factories were close to populations and a LOT of bombs missed. They pretty much had to carpet bomb areas to take out their targets. As usual, civilians paid a heavy price.

Yep the original purpose of the allied strategic bombing on Germany (as proposed by Churchill) was to destroy the moral of the German people. Once it became clear it was not working and if anything increasing German resolve to fight on, the emphasize changed to bombing industry communications and transport to weaken German industry and the war effort. the second latter approach was more costly but much more effective.

A more recent example of the ineffectiveness of general bombing is the costly and totally ineffectual 7th Air Force Operation Rolling Thunder conducted between March 1965 and November 1968.

[AndyJWest]

...the only point in including nuclear weapons in the game seems to be so immature prats can get their rocks off imagining blowing stuff up.

Which is where I entered this discussion, with some halfwit saying it would be 'cool'. I didn't expect a mature debate, and in a way I'm surprised that it has been as rational as it has. Nobody seems to have changed their position though, so ultimately it achieved little. Or maybe it has. At least some visitors to the forum might realise we aren't all so engrossed in out fantasy world that relaity passes us by...

You're right about US 'politics' too, Galway - to outsiders the whole thing seems infantile. Not that it is much better elsewhere.

[WTE_Galway]

Originally Posted by AndyJWest

You're right about US 'politics' too, Galway - to outsiders the whole thing seems infantile. Not that it is much better elsewhere.

haha ... well our Australian politics has gone beyond infantile to the point of being a hilarious Monty Python spoof at the moment. I do not think Britain is doing much better from what I hear. i think Aussies at present would accept a sheep as leader if it got the politicians (of all persuasions) off the television.