Friday 2010-07-02 Dev. update and Discussion Thread

[Ekar]

Originally Posted by Splitter

We await with baited breath, it looks gorgeous compared to anything else on the market today.


Splitter

It looks gorgeous, but maybe you haven't seen Wings of Prey yet. Of course, it's a little unfair to compare something which is WIP to a released product, and I will personally hold final judgement of SOWs graphics until it is finally ready for release, but right now WOP seems to hold the graphical crown.


http://image.gxzone.com/images/3/c/3c126094416.jpg
http://image.gxzone.com/images/e/4/e481321977c.jpg
http://forum.yuplay.com/index.php?ac...pe=post&id=136
http://forum.yuplay.com/index.php?ac...pe=post&id=149
http://img694.imageshack.us/f/shot20091219220049.jpg/
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_PibNDdSM_Pg/S2...2011.53.45.jpg
http://img3.imageshack.us/f/cloudsq.jpg/
http://forum.yuplay.com/index.php?ac...pe=post&id=575


However you'd rate WOP in terms of its flight simulation, graphically it is a powerhouse. Just look on that last shot, where the outside moisture creates a reflective sheen over the metal. I've never seen that before, it's truly gorgeous. And WOP is full of these little touches... Speaking graphically, it's kind of a shame to me that for some this game already seems to exist in the shadow of SOW.

(To be honest I bought WOP in order to get acquainted with WWII aviation and flight/combat techniques in preparation for SOW, but WOP is still great, and I like to see its graphical accomplishments atleast recognised).


What we really need to see to get a better idea of things are some good quality screens of SOW with full texture details, a decent amount of AA/AF, running on machines which can handle it. These preview screens give us an idea but they don't yet point to graphics better 'than anything else on the market today'. Maybe others can see it, but not me. Not just yet. Oleg seems confident, and I'm not saying that SOW won't look as good or better than WOP, simply that I'm not seeing that yet.

It does already look fantastic, and that is very promising indeed.

[Freycinet]

Ekar, it is VERY easy to stuff a game full of graphical goodies when you don't bother modelling everything else realistically. No need to dedicate computing resources to all those pesky things like flight modelling, artificial intelligence, damage modelling, etc...

WOP is arcade and as close to real air warfare as "Call of Duty" is to real land battles. I'm glad it has whetted your appetite for combat flight simming, but you should really try to move on to Il-2 or Rise of Flight before SoW:BoB comes out.

[Freycinet]

Originally Posted by smink1701

A few things that would be really neat to see in the final version…

1. In looking at historic gun camera footage, many times when a plane is being riddled with bullets one of the landing gear will drop down…like a wounded animal. If this was programmed to happen in the game on a selective, random basis, I think it would be really cool.

That effect is already in Il-2. Happening not very often, of course, as it should.

[Chivas]

Originally Posted by Ekar

It looks gorgeous, but maybe you haven't seen Wings of Prey yet. Of course, it's a little unfair to compare something which is WIP to a released product, and I will personally hold final judgement of SOWs graphics until it is finally ready for release, but right now WOP seems to hold the graphical crown.


http://image.gxzone.com/images/3/c/3c126094416.jpg
http://image.gxzone.com/images/e/4/e481321977c.jpg
http://forum.yuplay.com/index.php?ac...pe=post&id=136
http://forum.yuplay.com/index.php?ac...pe=post&id=149
http://img694.imageshack.us/f/shot20091219220049.jpg/
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_PibNDdSM_Pg/S2...2011.53.45.jpg
http://img3.imageshack.us/f/cloudsq.jpg/
http://forum.yuplay.com/index.php?ac...pe=post&id=575


However you'd rate WOP in terms of its flight simulation, graphically it is a powerhouse. Just look on that last shot, where the outside moisture creates a reflective sheen over the metal. I've never seen that before, it's truly gorgeous. And WOP is full of these little touches... Speaking graphically, it's kind of a shame to me that for some this game already seems to exist in the shadow of SOW.

(To be honest I bought WOP in order to get acquainted with WWII aviation and flight/combat techniques in preparation for SOW, but WOP is still great, and I like to see its graphical accomplishments atleast recognised).


What we really need to see to get a better idea of things are some good quality screens of SOW with full texture details, a decent amount of AA/AF, running on machines which can handle it. These preview screens give us an idea but they don't yet point to graphics better 'than anything else on the market today'. Maybe others can see it, but not me. Not just yet. Oleg seems confident, and I'm not saying that SOW won't look as good or better than WOP, simply that I'm not seeing that yet.

It does already look fantastic, and that is very promising indeed.

Unfortunately WOP only models a tiny portion of SE England which is totally useless for mission builders. I do like many aspects of WOP graphics, which look very realistic at first blush, but then you see all the missing details like roads, railways, on its colorless terrain. SOW will be much larger, more detailed, and realistic unless WOP makes some significant upgrades in the near future. The current lighting aspects of SOW graphics are amazingly photo realistic.

I agree that some aspects of what little WIP terrain we have seen so far in SOW need work. Oleg being an accomplished photograher knows exactly what it should look like, and I have no doubt he will do everything he can to make it right. Even if he gets it only 80% right it will be a major upgrade over what we have seen in WOP.

[AndyJWest]

Regarding smoke from aircraft fires, this page from the USAAF B-29 Gunners' SOP manual may be relevant:

Black smoke with orange flame is a fuel fire...

[KOM.Nausicaa]

Originally Posted by Ekar

It looks gorgeous, but maybe you haven't seen Wings of Prey yet. Of course, it's a little unfair to compare something which is WIP to a released product, and I will personally hold final judgement of SOWs graphics until it is finally ready for release, but right now WOP seems to hold the graphical crown.


http://image.gxzone.com/images/3/c/3c126094416.jpg
http://image.gxzone.com/images/e/4/e481321977c.jpg
http://forum.yuplay.com/index.php?ac...pe=post&id=136
http://forum.yuplay.com/index.php?ac...pe=post&id=149
http://img694.imageshack.us/f/shot20091219220049.jpg/
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_PibNDdSM_Pg/S2...2011.53.45.jpg
http://img3.imageshack.us/f/cloudsq.jpg/
http://forum.yuplay.com/index.php?ac...pe=post&id=575


However you'd rate WOP in terms of its flight simulation, graphically it is a powerhouse. Just look on that last shot, where the outside moisture creates a reflective sheen over the metal. I've never seen that before, it's truly gorgeous. And WOP is full of these little touches... Speaking graphically, it's kind of a shame to me that for some this game already seems to exist in the shadow of SOW.

(To be honest I bought WOP in order to get acquainted with WWII aviation and flight/combat techniques in preparation for SOW, but WOP is still great, and I like to see its graphical accomplishments atleast recognised).


What we really need to see to get a better idea of things are some good quality screens of SOW with full texture details, a decent amount of AA/AF, running on machines which can handle it. These preview screens give us an idea but they don't yet point to graphics better 'than anything else on the market today'. Maybe others can see it, but not me. Not just yet. Oleg seems confident, and I'm not saying that SOW won't look as good or better than WOP, simply that I'm not seeing that yet.

It does already look fantastic, and that is very promising indeed.

Well what I see in the last Heinkel shot are wrong markings, wrong paint and a lot more...but anyway, I have played WoP, I know from where you are coming. Like the others I am glad it has gotten you interested in flight simming. You will notice the huge difference when you switch from arcade 'WoP' to sims 'SoW'....trust me. I started simming back in 2003 and went through the same, from arcade to sims. It's like day and night. SoW has a LOT more to calculate than WoP. Honestly I think it's more than enough in the graphics department from what i can see in the screens. I am interested in damage models, flight models, etc etc etc. But being an old IL2 player I trust Oleg will get it right.

[Hoverbug]

Originally Posted by AWL_Spinner

It was deliberate, and the RAF did it too.

There's a bit in Guy Gibson's book where he describes how this was common practice when crossing the enemy coast in Hampdens. The asynchronous thrum made life more uncomfortable for the crew but the theory was it put the flak aimers off (I'm not sure exactly how this worked but there must have been some science behind it).

Cheers, Spinner

Presumably it would throw off the acoustic detection systems. Not going to help much against radar though. Probably was far more effective at causing crew discomfort than tricking flak batteries.

[Sutts]

Originally Posted by philip.ed

OK, thanks But at least, is there evidence of smoke looking like what you have shown for a continued period of time? Perhaps, i think, it is best to go by what is available in video form until some more evidence appears to show that there are other circumstances where different things can happen

I see quite a few comments on the dense smoke effect. Over the years I've watched hours of combat footage and tend to agree with Philip that grey or white smoke is most commonly seen when aircraft are going down. However, after a quick trawl of the web I've found a few original shots which back up the effects we're seeing in SOW.

What I don't fully agree with is that burning high octane fuel always produces billowing black smoke. I've seen countless images of torching bombers with absolutely no smoke at all (see images below). I think this may be due to:

a. Air speed - this creates a bellows effect and supplies enough oxygen to the fire to burn very cleanly. I think when bombers explode or spin and fall and large quantities of burning fuel is dumped into the air, the reduced speed creates a less efficient burn and the black smoke becomes more evident.

b. Other materials burning with the fuel. If rubberised fuel tanks or oil from ruptured tanks burns with the fuel then the smoke will be much darker.

I'm including lots of piccies below so you can form your own opinions. I've grouped them according to how dark the smoke is.

First The Dark Smoke: I think the 4th one is a particularly good match for what we've seen today.

[Sutts]

Another Dark Smoke.....

[Sutts]

Medium Smoke: