Friday 2010-02-25 Development update:Interview by Grégory Lemasson/Discussion Thread

[DJB]

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox

Sorry, I don't think so. However anything may happens.

Maybe a simple tool to make possible to translate the whole text?
Can be two columns style, left column with text in english and right column to enter wanted translation...

Thank you very much Oleg, for maintain contact with users.

Sorry for my bad english, but I hope you can understand me.

[Caveman]

Oleg: Can you comment on Buttkicker support for SOW? It works decently in IL-2, but it's a bit "digital"... Wondering if the sound code programmers will pay special attention to this device to smooth out the transitions from on to off in the low frequency range it's designed to operate in...

Using a Buttkicker for sound augmentation is analogous to using a Track IR for view augmentation... It's a big improvement.

Can you comment?

[PilotError]

Originally Posted by caveman

oleg: Can you comment on buttkicker support for sow. It works decently in il-2 but it's a bit "digital"... Wondering if the sound code will pay special attention to this device to smooth out the transitions from on to off in the low frequency range it's designed to operate in...

Using a buttkicker for sound augmentation is analogous to using a track ir for view augmentation... It's a big improvement.

Can you comment?

+1

[Zorin]

A FREYA installation, for anyone interested.

[Oleg Maddox]

Originally Posted by Zorin

A FREYA installation, for anyone interested.

This is one of the late variants. In 1940 such phased array antenna wasn't existed yet.

[Oleg Maddox]

Originally Posted by Caveman

Oleg: Can you comment on Buttkicker support for SOW? It works decently in IL-2, but it's a bit "digital"... Wondering if the sound code programmers will pay special attention to this device to smooth out the transitions from on to off in the low frequency range it's designed to operate in...

Using a Buttkicker for sound augmentation is analogous to using a Track IR for view augmentation... It's a big improvement.

Can you comment?

It is really something like subwoofer which instead of sound wave distribute the floor/chair wave.... by other words sound wave trasmitts into mechanical vibartion ... It is working exactly like subwoofer in terms of connection to sound card or home theather. Digital sound? It is only depending of this device. No needs any special support of such device. Its a toy.

You may place several such devices and tune it for different frequency of sound range... then it will shake you from guns by one device, or from engine by other device. Our by both in case of shell hit...

It is very simple device in terms of engineering.

[Caveman]

Originally Posted by Oleg Maddox

It is really something like subwoofer which instead of sound wave distribute the floor/chair wave.... by other words sound wave trasmitts into mechanical vibartion ... It is working exactly like subwoofer in terms of connection to sound card or home theather. Digital sound? It is only depending of this device. No needs any special support of such device. Its a toy.

You may place several such devices and tune it for different frequency of sound range... then it will shake you from guns by one device, or from engine by other device. Our by both in case of shell hit...

It is very simple device in terms of engineering.

Oleg, thanks for response. Yes, it is a simple device, but one that works quite effectively for increasing immersion By "digital" I meant that transitions in/out of the crossover frequency seem rather abrupt in IL-2 ("on" or "off"). Specifically, a more proportional response magnitude throughout the throttle range would seem to make it "perfect".

For instance, when the 109 is idling, the BK just about rattles one out of the chair. This is great, but the vibration amplitude tapers off quickly and "smooths out" when engine RPM is advanced past a certain "critical point". This gives the illusion of entering or exiting a vibration harmonic disturbance, instead of transitioning from a relatively "rough idle" to a "pleasant midrange engine-induced vibration hum". I spent some time adjusting/balancing the BKs freq cutoffs, crossover, and volume, and was able to get something "good", but IL-2 seems very "dynamically sensitive" when compared to other sims like MSFS, Lockon, etc... I attributed this to the complexity of the IL-2 sound engine with it's ability to play multiple tracks simultaneously to create the right "engine note" at any given frequency. In my mind, I surmised (incorrectly?) that the BK was "sliding" off an "amplitude step" on a low frequency track that the BK was picking up and therefore causing the abruptness.

It seems like BK-optimized code would have to use a Low Freq track of it's own, running very quietly in the "background" that could be turned up to the desired level using the BK...

Perhaps an independent "vibration track" to capture a balanced, realistic vibration throughout the freq range... A user could set the BK freq range anywhere, but setting it near a BK track "tuning freq" would force the BK to follow that predetermined "vibration amplitude map" that you specify.

Keep in mind this is all in the context of improving the IL-2 sound engine/BK experience that last 10%... I just wondered if any specific thought had gone into this...

Your suggestion to use multiple BKs was unique and so true... What a great idea! I had never thought of the advantages to that sort of setup.

Thanks for keeping the dialogue open for comments. It really is something amazing to chat with a developer. I've been simulating since the early 80's and all I can say is that you've made many dreams a reality. Can't wait to see the birth of SOW.

[hugso]

Originally Posted by Caveman

Oleg: Can you comment on Buttkicker support for SOW? It works decently in IL-2, but it's a bit "digital"... Wondering if the sound code programmers will pay special attention to this device to smooth out the transitions from on to off in the low frequency range it's designed to operate in...

Using a Buttkicker for sound augmentation is analogous to using a Track IR for view augmentation... It's a big improvement.

Can you comment?

Just come across this post. I very much agree that vibrations from bass shakers enormously increases immersion. My first mod to my IL2 set-up was to simply to feed audio into my seat. Good, and well worth doing, but what made it much better was to feed in FFB signal to feel bumps and thumps on landing and taxiing and vibrations when entering stall and when flying with gear down etc. This was pretty complicated, involving opening up joystick and filtering signal from motors. This would be enormously simpler if the FFB vibration signal was available as an audio signal, maybe through DeviceLink. This would be fed directly into an amplifier without any need for Buttkicker (which I have to say I have not tried). I would imagine it would be very simple to implement in IL2.

[MikkOwl]

Originally Posted by hugso

This would be enormously simpler if the FFB vibration signal was available as an audio signal, maybe through DeviceLink. This would be fed directly into an amplifier without any need for Buttkicker (which I have to say I have not tried). I would imagine it would be very simple to implement in IL2.

Vibration level is available through device link, and this is (as far as I know) representative of the vibrations that are also used for FF. It is just a number.

You would want some software that could generate sounds repeating at the interval specified to a number it was being fed.

[hugso]

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

Vibration level is available through device link, and this is (as far as I know) representative of the vibrations that are also used for FF. It is just a number.

You would want some software that could generate sounds repeating at the interval specified to a number it was being fed.

I have tried using Vibration Level. We used it to drive a servo motor and it just moved the motor to one position for one level of vibration and then on to another position for the second level of vibration. I used this to drive a mechanical vibrating device on my seat. It was not very good. It is not the same as the signal which goes to FFB. What I am doing is taking the electrical signal fed to my FFB motors, passively filtering the higher frequencies out and it leaves rather nice bumps and rumbles which I feed into my seat. Feels really good, but a lot of tinkering about and modifying was necessary. It could be really easy if this audio signal was available without having to tear my joystick apart. Also I am sure the feeling could be made even better if it was designed in game to be used as audio. It really could be superb, and I would imagine not that difficult to add.