Rolling in a Bf 110

[IceFire]

Glancing shots with a 108 are going to do less damage than a full on hit. Sometimes you hit an extremity and you waste a lot of blast damage into empty air. Or at least you do in the sim... I'm sure some of the air pressure effects aren't counted.

Still... some of you have pumped 35 MK108s into a P-47? All it takes is one often enough... sometimes one or two and the whole tail section comes off. It is a bit of a tough plane...

[David603]

Yeah, I fly the 109K4 alot and while P47s can often take one hit from a Mk108, unless you put the shot into the cockpit or engine, 2 hits are almost always enough.

The only time I have had to put more than 2 rounds into a P47 was one time where I jumped one from behind and fired a 2 round burst, hitting the left stabiliser with one round, blowing it, the left elevator and the rudder off, with the second round going into the left wing, and the P47 was still flying, obviously crippled but holding a steady course and I could see the pilot upright in the cockpit. I made a second pass from above and behind, firing one round into the cockpit, at which point the Jug went nose down and flew straight into the ground.

[=KAG=Bersrk]

I always use:

-tanks busting: Bk3,7
-railroad stations and airfield attack: 2xSD500 + 4xSC50
-patrooling and other fighter missions: default
-heavy bomber interception: 2xMK108

[Oktoberfest]

About the 108s and the 47, I don't know what was wrong with that particular P47 but it took a lot of hits, yeah. And it's not something unusual. I remember chasing a P47 with Brain32 once, both firing a mixture of 108s, 20mm and 13mm rounds... It really took a lot of hits to bring him down...

Less than with 7.92mm though... Once I've made the test online, I had default armament in the nose... I chased an already damaged 47 (I damaged his engine) and wanted to see how effective those MGs are.... I fired half of my ammunition and scored 800 hits... to no visible effect. At the end I had to score again some 12 x 20 mm rounds to bring it down. Otherwise he would've flown straight back to its base. That's why I gave up the default armament. Usually, one 30mm round = 50 - 100 mg rounds. If you aim properly, this is more effective.

To Mikk Owl, I confirm : the safest way to go out of a bad situation is to have a wingman

Manoeuvering is good but then even if you manage to lose an enemy's aim for a few seconds, the 110 poor acceleration makes it hard to take any advantage.

@ Berserk : You have to send me some tracks on how you do that job with the Bk37 against sherman. I never managed anything with that gun.

[KG26_Alpha]

IL2 1946 Bk 37 is HE round not AP

So killing Shermans must be a round straight into the turret hatch or rear turret area ??
Some early Soviet tanks can be killed with 20mm from the sides.

It was originally AP round in first model with the gun (IIRC) angled down but that was revised into BK 37 HE bomber killer.

[MikkOwl]

The 7.92mm in general are pretty ineffective from straight behind. I recall doing long dogfight sessions with a friend with early war type planes (Hurricane Mk.II etc) and there were times were one could exhaust the entire ammunition supply (at fairly close range from 6 o clock) onto the plane but it would not go down. Some control surface damages in the tail etc, yes. But not go down.

The reason for this is probably as simple as the official conclusions back in the day - only the engines and cockpit are effective to shoot at, while for cannons the entire plane is. MG type projectiles don't have enough energy for penetration of the skin and doing any considerable damage - especially at high deflection angles (straight from behind). And from behind it is hard to hit the engine and cockpit. An exception is if having perfect convergence with 8+ Mg's - then it can start causing destruction anywhere. And this is why the RAF was so concerned with convergece in general.

4x17mg are not completely useless, if used when doing long and medium range deflection shooting. There's so much ammo that you can fire for a really long time (nearly a full minute of trigger time), and hitting is not that difficult.

Often an enemy, when turning into you or around you or whatever, will be putting is lift vector on you (that is, you are straight up from the pilot's seat). This means the cockpit presents itself for a pilot killing opportunity, as well as engine, and the 4x17 fire 80 rounds per second.. almost like a modern minigun. The chance of hitting is much greater than when using the cannons. Just shower the fuselage, let them fly through the hail.

But when dealing with bombers, ground targets, shooting at something from behind, bouncing anything - the 108's are of course extremely superior. The 108 is a much better weapon. Question is how much - really - it affects aircraft performance. An extra 120-200+ kg at the nose should not affect roll rate, but it should make the aircraft have a worse turn rate (especially sustained turn), worse climb, worse acceleration. Meanwhile, it should be more stable (good for gunnery?), less likely to spin, less severe spins that are easier to recover from and..and.. and..

I have had no luck at all with 3.7 vs tanks ever. A big explosion but no dead tanks.

Oktoberfest - what about that Split-S for 110, any specific reason for using it?

[Oktoberfest]

Hello Mikkowl,

the reason why I favor the 108s to the MG is that given the already lack of any edge in speed, manoeuvrability and acceleration, I prefer having something that allows to set the game instantly. How good is 5% manoeuvrability more an advantage if all enemy fighters are 2 to 3 times better in manoeuvrability than you anyway, especially if you give up the 1 hit 1 kill option ?

About the split-S, it's the only effective way for the 110 to disengage from an enemy diving on you at high speed. But if you pull too hard on the stick, the plane will shake and you lose actually time to start the dive. Which gives a better opportunity for the enemmy to fire at you.

Of course, if their is enough separation, favor the head on.

[MikkOwl]

Understood. I thought you meant to use Split-S in other situations than just anti-bounce maneuver.

And yes, understood the 108 reasoning before, just like I myself reason exactly the same. No point to 110 at all if not having something to use that has an edge.

[=KAG=Bersrk]

Guys:

Among all tanks, the only problem I had with KV-1. it should be hit directly in the top of turm. But against Shermans, T-34 and all other lighter tanks it is perfect, I remember I had one mission, with result: 12 T-70, 9 T-34 and 3 KV-1 destroyed

Actually, I will look through my records, if some tracks are still exist... I cant record new ones, because my mouse joystick does not work with Win7 (64bit), and it is need a time to search new version of sofware. I didnt flew for 3 month already

[TheGrunch]

Originally Posted by MikkOwl

The 7.92mm in general are pretty ineffective from straight behind. I recall doing long dogfight sessions with a friend with early war type planes (Hurricane Mk.II etc) and there were times were one could exhaust the entire ammunition supply (at fairly close range from 6 o clock) onto the plane but it would not go down. Some control surface damages in the tail etc, yes. But not go down.

You can aim for the radiator on the Hurricane. I don't know whether damaging it is modeled in the game, but it certainly makes me feel better. The best place to aim on the Hurricane is definitely the fuel tank (right behind the engine), because even if you miss the fuel tank, you'll probably hit the engine or the pilot. And they really do light up easily...no armour around the fuel tank. I've taken down 2 or 3 Hurricanes that way in one sortie after running out of cannon ammo in the 109E (offline of course!). Don't fire at 0 angle-off once you've given the radiator a few hits. Wait until they turn.