"Wings" Of Prey (PC). Watchout Oleg!

[proton45]

One of the key points of any game, is the ability to suspend ones skepticism to the point where they can (somewhat) forget that they are sitting at a computer playing a game...Anything that is built into a game that can help the player indulge the fantasy is good. In some cases, like with "BoP", the makers attempt to nudge our willingness to "play" by tapping into the fantasy and enthusiasm that one feels while watching a good movie...like "Saving Private Ryan" or "Band of Brothers". I for one prefer a "closer to reality" look that makes me feel that Im seeing things the way they where "back then"...If I play a game that looks "like the real world" (like I'm looking out the window) then when I see an "ME109" or the "White Cliff of Dover"...I feel transported back in time.

[RomBinDaHouse]

Originally Posted by Chivas

but I doubt it will stand up to the detail in SOW's terrain engine. Every terrain object in SOW will be more detailed with an elevation terrain that will include river banks.

Endless detailing is clear idiotism(based on idialism?) and self-killing. There's deadline for devs\business\human mind\etc. The product must be done when it planned.
You waiting BoB from 2005-2007, you know? Now is 2010.

Originally Posted by Chivas

Although WOP did this with very small maps.

100x100 km is smal for you? U wanna 65000x65000km map, probably whole galaxy modelled? Far from actual reality.
Yeah, maps can be 400x400km and bigger, but goals of this project were another, sorry. It's better when game works smoothly, whithout streaming in this case. Because it made for console market initially. Birds of Prey it calls.

Originally Posted by Chivas

This will be SOW biggest challenge getting much larger maps with far more detailed objects to work with playable frame rates with no pop ups.

For sure, pop-ups,lags,etc PC-games uglies will be present in BoB, 'cos maddox team never work on hard "console" optimization ruled by Sony or Microsoft TCR\TRC-conditions.

[sweln]

If a game could make me believe i'm really playing in "Porco Rosso" or in "The Cockpit"... geee.
Well somehow, I think that SoW, if it looks better than WoP and is a bit moddable, yup, it will be possible.

Other way around, it will be another 10 years to wait before we can get our hands on enough power and tech to have a sim that really looks like real stuff.

[RomBinDaHouse]

Originally Posted by sweln

Other way around, it will be another 10 years to wait before we can get our hands on enough power and tech to have a sim that really looks like real stuff.

No, man. It's closer. 3-4-5 years, no more.

But when it comes, all the guys will say in horus: "Whata Faaa??? I need REALISM, not da SHEEET".

It will be forever. Virtual Reality not for "pseudo"-gurmans, sorry people. It is for approximation of reality aye, that's for sure.
And finally - it's a GAME.. like your fantasy-WoW-Dream-'bout-elven\orc-gay.

You can get "simulator" on VIP- big spherical screen in aviation-school for more money, that cost home entertainment. For sure. And it will be again - only approximation of reality...


PS sorry for english =)

[sweln]

Well next generation of consoles will be in 3-4 years. And it will still be a little not powerfull enough for photo realism. Same for physics. So I'd say another generation more (and PC equivalent).

Big school sims do have all the mechanical stuff, but the graphics... doooo... nope, I can tell, they are all outdated.

[Chromius]

Really to sum up my previous post which is not targeted at WoP to flame it, but to say "hey do not throw out all these graphic pictures and say Oleg, SoW better be able to do this or else" I am glad someone else took the time to create a new WW2 combat flight sim. The market does need more people in it.

But I would not want potential simulation developers to get fixated on the graphical aspect as being the most important. Just because you all say so.

Heightened realism in a Simulation is not dependent on its graphical representation but primarily on the mechanics at work behind the graphics, do you think a real life 747 or any military simulation had a requirement for good graphics as being the key part?

Thus its called a Simulation and not a game wanting to be a simulation.

Yes graphics do add immensely to the immersion but I would not think it is the "key" element to a simulation.

Ok its WW2 and we had supercomputers early (fantasy obviously) and needed a Combat simulator to train pilots, what would the military want as key training elements in its flight simulator? good AI tactics, realistic Take-offs and landings , startup by checklist? Complex FM's DM's and engine management?

Then there is the whole other aspect Mods, Multiplayer, and all the things that can be done in a mission editor ect.....ground objects and interaction.

If I liked graphics I would not be playing War In the Pacific AE, HOI3 (counters on), TOAW3 along with other simulations.

One that many may not care about as a comparison, Baldurs Gate to Dragon Age, yeah fancy graphics, yeah it has classes and story and skills but god I think its about 3 steps back , but its quite popular go figure? I couldnt even finish it.

But yes WoP will satisfy the needs of many people and I am happy that it will, but I would never want graphics to take precedence in anything labeled as a simulation. But then again I am the minority in this so I lose.

Originally Posted by RomBinDaHouse

No, man. It's closer. 3-4-5 years, no more.

But when it comes, all the guys will say in horus: "Whata Faaa??? I need REALISM, not da SHEEET".

It will be forever. Virtual Reality not for "pseudo"-gurmans, sorry people. It is for approximation of reality aye, that's for sure.
And finally - it's a GAME.. like your fantasy-WoW-Dream-'bout-elven\orc-gay.

You can get "simulator" on VIP- big spherical screen in aviation-school for more money, that cost home entertainment. For sure. And it will be again - only approximation of reality...


PS sorry for english =)

I beg to differ, If you fly stock fsx-fs9 and do not attempt to fly by the flight rules and limitations of the engines/aircraft then yes its a game. If you fly fsx-fs9 with addon aircraft, addon weather, plan the flight correctly using real routes taking into account winds/weather , fly online vatsim using real atc and flying by real aircraft limitations and flight rules and regulations as per region specific and aircraft POH/FCOM's then no its not a game but a simulation. Real World Pilots and pilots in training fly in many Online Virtual Airlines and in FS-9/FSX just so they can fly aircraft they do not get to fly in real life. Years ago there was a tutorial on flying an add-on 737 by a regular airline pilot saying that if you can do that you can do the real thing, in fact it is harder for a simmer to hone his/her skills since you cannot feel the aircraft movement and react,(a huge liabilty for visuals is no track ir) which comes as second nature like driving straight down the road and moving the wheel back and forth to stay straight down the road, you stop noticing it.

[13th Hsqn Protos]

Originally Posted by Chivas

I doubt it will stand up to the detail in SOW's terrain engine. Every terrain object in SOW will be more detailed with an elevation terrain that will include river banks.

Unfortunately there is not a shred of evidence so far to support that.

Just a lot of propaganda started in response to wop terrain textures. They got caught with their pants down by W.o.P terrain. Be sure.

I would love to be wrong ....... but not hopeful of all the 'qualifiers' I have heard.

Lets see.

[RomBinDaHouse]

Originally Posted by Chromius

Yes graphics do add immensely to the immersion but I would not think it is the "key" element to a simulation.

+100500

graphics is only "trick" for "immersion"

[RomBinDaHouse]

Originally Posted by 13th Hsqn Protos

Lets see.

Yeah, will see.

I whish maddox team can make pure coool graphics (PC-looking, all in one breath), no "hoollywoodish"-style, but pure realistic, whis high-detailed landscape. Highly detailed in everything. Blaaahueeee.. (puke)

But one thing i doubt - they can't give it on 30FPS (on medium rig), upward they will lose in this competition.

[sweln]

Yes, graphics are immersion, but also a simulation of reality. Getting blind because of light you can fake it with lightness, but it's ugly. HDR looks better and so on.

Professional sims don't have beautifull graphics, for sure. That's because they don't have to sell it to the global public!

Of course the main object for SoW is to become the most advanced sim of WW2 flights, and that is mostly physics and FM.
But without up to date top notch graphics, the game won't sell as good as it should, because the simmers community isn't big enough for Oleg and his team to eat everyday. Otherwise there would be even more sims out there.

So SoW has to please future simmers, and the best way to achieve it is by working on every aspect of the game, graphics included. That is why e are all excited (for good or not) about WoP, because we all want SoW to be better in every domain than WoP!

I would like to remind that when Il-2 came out, it was graphically oustanding. And that also made the game's reputation. It was a very good looking and was a deep sim. Everything was over the rest.

SoW has to beat that same challenge. No?

WoP is a good test, and a good first step for Oleg and team to have a good idea of what's "do-able" in terms of graphics (even with a limited terrain and ground objects). Now all the rest has to be as good as that .
I also wonder what are the links between the Il-2 Birds of Prey project and Il-2 / SoW / Oleg Maddox... isn't Birds of Prey published by 1C? And isn't Oleg Maddox a producer at 1C? I'm confused!

Can't Oleg just give his opinion? That would help!

EDIT
I also want to add this, about hollywoodish graphics :
haze and colors, blur and HDR, god rays and other "impressive" FX and cinematographic effects can all be graphical options.
So it is best for Oleg to implement them in SoW (WoP style) and leave the possibility for each of us to tweak the result he wants (Il-2 difficulty settings style)!