microlag? might I have it?

[TRC Subaru]

I just did some quick calculations and just for reference, if there is lag and some how the game calculations are off by just 1 degree, you will miss the projected point by:

100 ft – miss by 1.8 ft

200 ft – miss by 3.5 ft

500 ft – miss by 8.7 ft

900 ft – miss by 15.7 ft (convergent point)

So you can see if you are only 500 ft away and off by just one degree you are probably missing the enemy’s plane completely.

Although it is possible that the game always captures the correct data and as you notice some times just “stalls” for a second, possibly processing that data, and then continues on projecting the bullets on their correct path…and possibly I just suck…lol...

Maybe some of you highly intelligent “Program People” can give us some insight on how exactly all the captured data and calculations work on an online game and if it is even possible for a miscalculation of bullet projection.

[InfiniteStates]

Yeah it's easily possible/probable. Sit down and grab a drink, cos I'm bored and it's Friday afternoon lol...


A game updates at a fairly regular, fairly high frequency (e.g. 30 or 60 frames per second). But network packets about game state (from other players) arrive at a much lower frequency. e.g.

Good ping:
Update + network packet
Update
Update
Update + network packet
Update
Update
Update + network packet
...


Bad Ping:
Update + network packet
Update
Update
Update
Update
Update
Update + network packet



To cope with this, the game will predict, based on the last known information, where each player will be for the updates between network packets. e.g. if the last packet says player A is moving north at 200mph, that is what the system will continue have him doing until a packet arrives to tell it otherwise.

This explains why people jump all over the place when a game is laggy. The game is not getting status updates frequently so is running linear predictions for too long. Then it adjusts when new status information arrives and on your screen player A jumps from where the system thought he would be to where the system has now been told he actually is.

This also explains why incredibly quick events often don't register. Ever had problems getting an online takedown on Burnout? Or knifing someone on Call of Duty or Battlefield? This is why.

The problem is also made even worse by changing from a TCP protocol for match-making and the lobby, to UDP for in-game communication. TCP is a slower protocol, but guarantees packet delivery, whereas UDP is faster but packets can and will go missing now and then.

But there's also a lot of other factors that come into it that are beyond my knowledge, and there are many different ways of going about implementing netcode and packet loss coping. There is also the difference between dedicated servers and peer-to-peer systems.

So to answer your question, I think it's less a case of miscalculating bullet projection and more a case of misrepresenting target location. If that makes sense...?

[TRC Subaru]

Thanks for the intelligent info Infinite…

So if the program simply “assumes” your projected path, and when you’re actually on someone’s “6” making minute adjustments to the plane to keep your bullets on target you believe it is possible that if a “packet” is not received the program may not be getting this information and just “making up” the projected target path, therefore not keeping your bullet path on your target as expected? I imagine there is a “time-out” situation where the game has not received enough information in a given time and just shuts down…but I wonder how badly off target the program can be theoretically before it shuts down? This could explain a lot…

[KillerWinoWilly]

Well.... i dont know what TRC's talking about... He kills me all the time!!!! LOL

[TRC Subaru]

Originally Posted by KillerWinoWilly

Well.... i dont know what TRC's talking about... He kills me all the time!!!! LOL

Only because your not lagging…well at least not until you start hitting the wine…lol...

Those were some good dogfights we have had lately Wino…lag or no lag…

[KillerWinoWilly]

Ya... Good matches, last couple days.I did notice some lag last night.I think my problem missing shots is... i just need to practice... lol.

[kozzm0]

Originally Posted by InfiniteStates

So to answer your question, I think it's less a case of miscalculating bullet projection and more a case of misrepresenting target location. If that makes sense...?

That's exactly where I generally see lag, in arcade games with lots of players at high speed. If a net packet is a bit late, and the plane is doing 600kph and turning at what would be about 11 g's, the difference between where the client thought it was, and where the server says to put it instead, is a lot more noticeable.

Lag is also usually caused by the server being overloaded, your 512kbits download is plenty. Most games send data server-to-client at about 60 to 100kbits/s and client-to-server often less than that.

I'm not sure how Raknet works, or if they have dedicated servers, if they don't, then your upload speed is the critical factor, if you host.

[Robotic Pope]

Yeah its so annoying. Fortunately it only really happens for mw if the host is in the US and lots of people are in the game. I usually end up last with 1 or 2 kills at most. Also sometimes I see people who I know are good players do very badly, I put that down to mini lag too. If I want to continue to play with the same host, to combat the "microlag" I usually pick the me109G6 as you only have to get a couple of "lucky lag" hits to kill someone. Sometimes ive guessed a huge "Lucky lag lead" deflection shot and watched the target explode while my tracers have flown past waaaaay ahead of it.