|
|
|||||||
| IL-2 Sturmovik The famous combat flight simulator. |
 |
|
|
Thread Tools | Display Modes |
|
|
|
#1
10-07-2009, 04:23 AM
|
|||
|
|||
Well, looks like you had a hard time guys, don't you?
Lucas, would you post your TRACKS please? There is something... strange. So here it is, the impervious pilot of the SM.79. As you see, shooting from the dorsal machine gun of a He-111 from a point black range has no effect on the pilot...   I knew the italians are tough guys.... but still....  Also could somebody explain me what exactly stops the bullets here from killing the gunner and the pilots?  Hmmm.. some thin wood stops a MG bullet?! Hey Lucas, will you stay behind such a shield, if I shoot at you with a machine gun... And here is a cutaway drawing of SM.79.  No 52, 53, 139 are fuel tanks... What actually protects them from getting exploded? As you see, I put quite an amount of bullets into them...  And Lucas, do your test with I-16, or something with 2-4 MGs, as I wrote... You have a whole day to make attempts. I'm sure till midnight you'll come with another smashing video. But this time, with tracks, please
Last edited by Tipo_Man; 10-07-2009 at 08:33 AM. 
|
|
#2
10-07-2009, 06:32 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
S!
Quote:
"The first recorded interception of a SM.79 formation took place on 11 October 1937 when three aircraft were attacked by 12 Polikarpov I-16s (known as the ''Rata'' (Rat) to the Spanish Nationalists). One of SM.79s was damaged by repeated attacks made by the slightly faster ''Ratas'', but its defences prevented the attackers from pressing close-in attacks. All the bombers returned to base, although one had been hit by 27 bullets, many hitting the fuel tanks. A few other examples of similar interceptions occurred in this conflict, without any SM.79s being lost. Combat experiences revealed some deficiencies in the SM.79: the lack of oxygen at high altitudes, instability, vibrations experienced at speeds over 400 km/h and other problems were encountered and sometimes solved. Gen. Valle, in an attempt to answer some of the criticisms about the ability of the aircraft to operate at night (because its wingload and other characteristics were controversial) took off from Guidonia and bombed Barcelona, a journey of six hours and 15 minutes. On this occasion the aircraft proved it had a useful range (around 1,000 km with eight 100 kg bombs, for a total gross weight of around 1,000 kg). Normally SM.79s operated from the Balearic Islands and later from mainland Spain. Hundreds of missions were performed in a wide range of different roles against Republican targets. No Fiat CR.32s were needed to escort the SM.79s, partly because the biplane fighters were too slow." Persue SM.79 with I-16 5-6 or 10 (not in game) is non-sense http://tripatlas.com/Savoia-Marchetti_SM.79
|
|
#3
10-07-2009, 08:10 AM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Wow 27 hits and still alive! So this amount was considered significant even by its pilots!
I think the one I've posted had suffered several times more... Maybe 27 are the hits only in the fuel tank... Nice information, thanks for sharing it. But... I'm still waiting for an explanation what exactly makes SM.79 impervious to light MG fire, compared to other bombers of the era: SB DB-3 Blenheim He-111 They all share common feature, like unprotected fuel tanks, except He-111 ( in the wing root). No pilot armour. There is nothing to stop a bullet, if it doesn't hit a spar. And these bombers do burn and get shot down... In fact during BoB Germany lost most of its bombers to the "obsolete" light MG's of british fighter. And He-111 and especially Ju-88 were more advanced and well protected aircrafts than SM.79. They both have self-sealing fuel tanks for example... I'm still waiting for the tracks from xxx_from_Hell. It is quite interesting for me how one can kill the pilot from dead 6, since I can't do it even with a .50 cal bullet. Oh, in fact I can, just a simple change in the appropriate place is needed And cutting the wing with a short burst... Very interesting... Could the rest of you do it ?
Last edited by Tipo_Man; 10-07-2009 at 08:14 AM.
|
|
#4
10-07-2009, 12:34 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
At this time in history, little was known yet or developed yet as far as properly attacking heavy gunner defended bombers. Some knowledge was gained in W.W.I but this was apparently lost information or the tactics were simply not studied by the I-16 pilots in question. And considering that virtual pilots playing this game are likely to be far braver since their lives are not actually in jeopardy in a game, it should be likely that they'd have a much better chance of success than the real life pilots in the Spanish civil war. So did the SM.79 have such "invulnerability" or was there a lack of something on the part of the enemy fighter pilots? Maybe they just wanted to go home to their wives and kids and were not heavily into what they were fighting for? That account indicates the fighter pilots stood off very badly. Unwarranted fear of attacking the Marchetti might have persisted throughout that war so the supposed invulnerability of this bomber might have been wildly exaggerated. If a bomber is never attacked like it should be attacked, how could one properly gauge the real strength of the bomber in question? Last edited by Fearfactor; 10-07-2009 at 12:54 PM.
|
|
#5
10-07-2009, 12:57 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
got it wrong
I owe an apology.
I believed that when i collided several times (rammed) wing to wing with my fighter ( hurricane destroyed) it was that the sm79 was too strong. I now believe that to be incorrect. I have been doing testing with tracks i assume that what had happened was the top gunner had critically wounded my plane at point blank range and i mistook this for my aircraft hitting the sm79's wings. That rear top gun is a real killer (see attached track) It's a 12.7mm correct??? regards Satan
|
|
#7
10-07-2009, 02:33 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Typo man, i'm sorry, but it's all your fault.
Either you don't know how to shoot or you have a bugged version of the game, in whitch Your weapon didn't work OR the SM79 it's invulnerable. Really, i have tried to kill the pilot with ONLY the ventral gunner of another SM79, and i did it twice, with another kill with a side gunner, and here is the record ( the firs plane is already diving for the ground, but you can clearly see the pilot still inside and the parachute of the other crewmembers in the background. The second plane just exploded ( but again, you can clearly see that the pilot's hatch is not ejected), and the third one is a clear pilot ( and second pilot too if i remember correct ) kill. You can still see him in his seat. I don't know how to post it on youtube, but i authorize anyone who know how to do, it to post it, to show everyone that even a novice pilot ( me ), entered in a fighting group from less than 3 months ( and with only a dozen of lessons ) and with very few flying skills and gunnery skills can shoot down an SM79 with ONLY ONE 12.7 machinegun. Obviously i set the plane for be my wingman, so i can easly shoot to them from the front, carefully aiming for the pilot. I did that to check the damage model ( and because, as i said before, i am not a great pilot ). But you are right in one of your older post, 27 shots taken it's not that much, and nearly not as much as the 200 holes with whitch th he111 came back from London's raid. Probably 300 or 400 may build a little legend of a sturdy airplane, and 500 or 600 could build a normal legend. But sadly, SM79 can't show such kind of record. It can only show a plane returning in Addis Abeba With 800 holes after been attacked by 2 .303 armed hurricanes and 2 gladiator. In defence of the english plane, i have to say that there were 2 SM 79, and hat the two gladiators were quikly left behind. And that's just one of the stories about SM79. As i have said a couple of pages before. So, we started with an invulnerabile plane that can't be shoot down non damaged or it's crew killed, proceeded up to a plane that is possible to damage ( black smoke from the engine, fuel leak and wounded or dead crewmembers ) with relative ease, but the pilot it's still invulnerable, and then ended to a "normal" plane, just a little fast and well armed, and with a pilot thath can't be killed shooting from dead six ( in these last case i can't say anything, beacause i don't know how to check it by myself or try to do it by myself [remember: i'm not that great pilot] ). By the way, from the initial "No specific spots to hit ot damage. No fuel leaks, cut cables. No pilot or gunners kills, neither fires." i think that'sa good progress. P.S. : The ZIP file contain the track for il2, i hope it work correctly. And again, i'm sorry for my english
|
|
#8
10-07-2009, 03:25 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Quote:
 Hmmm... The ventral machine gun of SM.79 is 12,7 mm. Although one of the weakest of its caliber, it is still much more powerful than 7,92 MG of a He-111. So your missing tracks prove nothing. The pilots are impervious to 7,62 (7,92) machineguns. Could you do it with a He-111?
|
|
#9
10-07-2009, 04:13 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
Yes i can.
In one of the tracks, the central engine of SM79 catches fire after less than 1 second of fire from the ventral machinegun of an HE111 H2. In the last two tracks, the pilot or the secodn pilot are killed after not so mutch shooting. You can clearly see the pilot not jumping away when the plane start diving. But why missing track? The .Zip file was corrupted or has it not loaded?
|
|
#10
10-07-2009, 06:44 PM
|
|||
|
|||
|
S!
Quote:
The republican pilots were not lacking courage: they were fighting against more advanced and more numerous aeroplanes. Resources were lacking, including bullets and fuel. SP!
|
|
| Thread Tools | |
| Display Modes | |
|
|
Hybrid Mode
