Detailed BOP test data for 20 BOP aircraft available here!

[MorgothNL]

Originally Posted by trk29

How do you know you were at a exactly 50 degree climb?

you can see this in the virtual cockpit. Pretty good skill if you could keep it at 50 degree the whole time though. In real life this is easy with trimming, but in the game it is impossible to keep the plane exactly were you want

[ChankyChank]

Very interesting widar thanks a lot for publishing the results. It's always interesting flying with you and panzergranate-you guys are incredibly knowledgable.

[Robotic Pope]

Nice. Although your results of turn and roll are flawed because of the constant sensitivity setting, The Top speed, Dive and Climb rate stats are all very interesting. Your conclusions are still valid and well made. Damn some of those top speeds are way off. You are right about the gondola cannons on the 109's, They were also said to ruin the planes maneuverability but in BoP the gondola 109's handle just as well as the clean 109's.

[Widar]

Originally Posted by Robotic Pope

Nice. Although your results of turn and roll are flawed because of the constant sensitivity setting, The Top speed, Dive and Climb rate stats are all very interesting. Your conclusions are still valid and well made. Damn some of those top speeds are way off. You are right about the gondola cannons on the 109's, They were also said to ruin the planes maneuverability but in BoP the gondola 109's handle just as well as the clean 109's.

Thanks for your response.

The gondola's on the Me 109 G-6 do degrade performance in BOP, check the Me 109 G-6 test results regarding BOP maximum sustained level speed, roll and turn rate in seconds etc. as compared to the BOP Me 109 G-2 and Me 109 G-10 test results. These three aircraft in real life were not all that dissimilar to warrant the discrepancies in BOP test results.

Actually I find that to compare the aircraft honestly all must be tested at the same sensitivity setting, the conditions must be the same for the tests results to be comparable. In the end it does not make that much of a difference in many ways. I'll explain this in more detail.

For instance, I spent a lot of time testing the P51 and Fw 190 models, both in single player and online, since they are some of the worst performers in BOP. My Xbox live friends and I found that when we did this test:

Two Fw 190's flying online in formation both making 360 degree rolls at the same altitude and speed, one with sensitivity setting 20 of 20 and one at 10 of 20. The difference in roll rate was not even one second or a second at most. We could not believe this at first and tested it about five times in succession with the Fw 190 A/F-8 and with the P51. The same happened in 360 degree turns. The major difference appears to be that it is easier to enter into a spin or stall at higher sensitivity settings and not that it makes an aircraft way more maneuverable in return.

We also did some testing of this kind with the I-153 with more or less the same results. The same for dive and climb testing with Spitfires and Me 109's.

So the higher sensitivity settings are actually more hurtful than harmful online for the average virtual pilot based on testing.

So based on testing, I would have to disagree with you on your sensitivity remark.

[fuzzychickens]

Originally Posted by Widar

Thanks for your response.

The gondola's on the Me 109 G-6 do degrade performance in BOP, check the Me 109 G-6 test results regarding BOP maximum sustained level speed, roll and turn rate in seconds etc. as compared to the BOP Me 109 G-2 and Me 109 G-10 test results. These three aircraft in real life were not all that dissimilar to warrant the discrepancies in BOP test results.

Actually I find that to compare the aircraft honestly all must be tested at the same sensitivity setting, the conditions must be the same for the tests results to be comparable. In the end it does not make that much of a difference in many ways. I'll explain this in more detail.

For instance, I spent a lot of time testing the P51 and Fw 190 models, both in single player and online, since they are some of the worst performers in BOP. My Xbox live friends and I found that when we did this test:

Two Fw 190's flying online in formation both making 360 degree rolls at the same altitude and speed, one with sensitivity setting 20 of 20 and one at 10 of 20. The difference in roll rate was not even one second or a second at most. We could not believe this at first and tested it about five times in succession with the Fw 190 A/F-8 and with the P51. The same happened in 360 degree turns. The major difference appears to be that it is easier to enter into a spin or stall at higher sensitivity settings and not that it makes an aircraft way more maneuverable in return.

We also did some testing of this kind with the I-153 with more or less the same results. The same for dive and climb testing with Spitfires and Me 109's.

So the higher sensitivity settings are actually more hurtful than harmful online for the average virtual pilot based on testing.

So based on testing, I would have to disagree with you on your sensitivity remark.

No, he is right. You need to calculated max turn/roll rates with sensitivity at max.

For planes like La-5/7 or Yak, you will get wrong numbers because max deflection is not reached when sensitivity is reduced - a compromise they had to make on the sens slider.

Turn sens to max on La-7/5 or Yak and you should get much better turn times.

This is a huge advantage to the good turning planes when you don't mess with sensitivity.

[Widar]

Originally Posted by fuzzychickens

No, he is right. You need to calculated max turn/roll rates with sensitivity at max.

For planes like La-5/7 or Yak, you will get wrong numbers because max deflection is not reached when sensitivity is reduced - a compromise they had to make on the sens slider.

Turn sens to max on La-7/5 or Yak and you should get much better turn times.

This is a huge advantage to the good turning planes when you don't mess with sensitivity.

Thanks for your response. But I have to disagree, based on testing. With some online friends we tested - while both flying the same aircraft at the same speed and altitude - on [10/20 vs 20/20] and [12/20 vs 20/20] and [17/20 vs 20/20] settings and the differences in seconds required for turning, rolls etc. were almost negligible, they are there but they are not really that drastic. Then one has to wonder whether a <=1 second horizontal turn advantage at 20/20 is worth the risk of a stall+spin that would not occur at a 10/20 or 17/20 setting.

But don't take my word for it, find a friend on your friends list, set up a 1vs1 online duel on private setting and spend about an hour conducting these tests with identical aircraft at identical speeds and altitude but with your wingman flying at 20/20 sensitivity settings and you at 17/20 and then at 10/20. Execute repeated exact turn, roll etc. maneuvers in synchonization and time them in seconds and write the results down. Then turn it around and let your wingman fly at 17/20 and 10/20 and you at 20/20. Let the one with the highest sensitivity setting fly just behind the one with the lower sensitivity setting and use the sun and your virtual cockpit compass as a point of reference to determine the beginning and end of every maneuver. Then consider if the stall+spin risk at 20/20 is worth a maybe 1 second advantage for an average virtual pilot against a really skilled virtual pilot who will not be lured into a horizontal turning duel anyway.

Then there is one other thing to consider when testing. When Michael Schumacher drives his former F1 Ferrari he is capable of reaching speeds and executing driver maneuvers that others will never duplicate in that same car under the same conditions. People drive cars every day but they never push that car to the limit of its capabilities because either they can't or don't dare to. To an extent this is also the case in BOP. There are great virtual pilots out there that can fly at 20/20 and execute maneuvers at the limit of what a particular aircraft can do in BOP just by applying the right amount of flight stick pressure and rudder. Maybe you are one of them, maybe not. Either way the benchmark for testing in my opinion is not what Michael Schumacher can do in his F1 Ferrari, but what "Joe Average" is capable of pulling off in that same F1 Ferrari. Since at least 80% of the virtual pilots fall in the "Joe Average" category, I based my testing on them. Look at the online BOP duels, about 20% of the pilots will regularly get 80% of the victories. The Michael Schumacher's, or more appropriately the Erich Hartmann's of this world can outperform just about any "Joe Average" no matter what type of car respectively aircraft they use. In my opinion it is the same in BOP, so my tests are therefore not based on the flying qualities of the top 20% of BOP virtual pilots at 20/20.

[fuzzychickens]

I've already done testing. The difference is huge and it's the difference between getting on the enemy 6 quickly and winning and getting shot down yourself.

Try la7 against 109 - with 109 sens at 10/20 and La7 at 10/20.

Now do the same with La7 and 109 at max sensitivity. The la7 now has a HUGE turn advantage.

This is a fact in this game. You can't compare performance with sensitivity cranked down.

The la7 is a monster turning beast from hell and testing it at reduced sensitivty might as well be testing it at forced reduced performance. Also, at 20/20, the La7 is EASY to fly without stalling in simulator. So it matters big time and certainly worth the risk to turn at max rate in a turn fight.

And yes, A one second turn time difference is HUGE. If you've played IL2 on the PC online and mixed it up in some turn fights - you'd realize that quickly.

[Reknad]

Spit Mildly overrated? i think not....

[Ancient Seraph]

I'll just rely on my experience in saying the Spit and La-7 own most of the other aircraft.

[Reknad]

Originally Posted by Ancient Seraph

I'll just rely on my experience in saying the Spit and La-7 own most of the other aircraft.

Yak 3 is actually better in a turn compared to the LA 7 IMO, or atleast i didnt really pay attention to it.