Ok Im convinced: The IL-2 is WAY too over spec.

[Lexandro]

Originally Posted by mattmanB182

Its not about winning or losing. I was just frustrated because I got many hits on the aircraft and it did not go down. My team mates did also.

Why would facts about the actual aircraft not matter? Is this not a sim?

There are a few posters here having the same trouble as me, yet only you saying you have no trouble.

So just because You have no trouble with IL-2 in the game, it doesnt need to be fixed.

No what Im suggesting is that people like yourself having the trouble are not targetting the IL2 in the correct fashion. Facts about the aircraft do matter but I rather think the devs would be more clued up on the IL series of aircraft than you are ( no offence), and therefor the flight and damage model would be as close to correct as physically possible in the game.

If your constantly sitting in an aircrafts 6 when it has a rear turret firing at you, then you deserve to loose its that simple. Anyone who plays the game in an IL can figure out its lines of attack and adjust accordingly.

The example I gave about BnZ attacks shows the correct way to target and take out these aircraft. You couple that with a wingman who flank attacks or hits it in the belly and its good night vienna.

[mattmanB182]

Originally Posted by Lexandro

No what Im suggesting is that people like yourself having the trouble are not targetting the IL2 in the correct fashion. Facts about the aircraft do matter but I rather think the devs would be more clued up on the IL series of aircraft than you are ( no offence), and therefor the flight and damage model would be as close to correct as physically possible in the game.

If your constantly sitting in an aircrafts 6 when it has a rear turret firing at you, then you deserve to loose its that simple. Anyone who plays the game in an IL can figure out its lines of attack and adjust accordingly.

The example I gave about BnZ attacks shows the correct way to target and take out these aircraft. You couple that with a wingman who flank attacks or hits it in the belly and its good night vienna.

I understand your point. And I do think your correct, but I still believe the plane has got to be fixed.

It can be taken down and you have proven that, but it still obsorbs way more damage then it should. Coupled with the fact that rear guns do not over-heat in the game, this plane dominates more often then not.

[Lexandro]

Originally Posted by mattmanB182

I understand your point. And I do think your correct, but I still believe the plane has got to be fixed.

It can be taken down and you have proven that, but it still obsorbs way more damage then it should. Coupled with the fact that rear guns do not over-heat in the game, this plane dominates more often then not.

NOW I believe you have hit the crux of the issue here, namely no overheat on turret guns. The planes damage model I believe is correct and fine, but this point that you now raise does indeed constitute an issue with the aircraft.

So the point is rather more simpler now, if these guns DID overheat wouldnt that be a much more balanced aspect of the combat? And would this alone alieviate the difficulty that some people have when fighting them?

[King Jareth]

Does the BoP damage model account for death of crew (besides the pilot)?

p.s. you 2 need to get a room and work out these tensions

[Ancient Seraph]

Originally Posted by King Jareth

Does the BoP damage model account for death of crew (besides the pilot)?

Not as far as I've noticed. This kind of sucks, although it's also understandable. If we would be able to kill all the gunners in a bomber this would destroy it's main defense, making it completely defenseless. You'd be able to destroy a bomber by just being on it's 6, this is not realistic either. Introducing overheating guns in the gunner position would be a good midway.
The reason any bomber with gunners works in DF/TB is because player do not know how to attack them, just like Lexandro pointed out. If there's a B17 in the opposite team in TB, I just ignore it, unless it crosses straight through my line of fire. Without anyone attacking a B17, it's fairly harmless. People don't understand this, hence a B17 gets kills.
Anyways, back to topic. I've never tried to shoot down an IL-2 in RL, hence I do not know how well it was or wasn't armored. I think I can safely assume you haven't either. Using Wikipedia as your main argument against a team of WWII sim developers might not be the way to go, no offense. If you adjust your tactics you'll see that bombers are not that effective, and can be taken down relatively easy. Just try out what Lexandro also pointed out, practice a bit, and you won't have any troubles with IL-2's anymore.

[Riceball]

You did'nt know? The IL-2 was the best aircraft in the war. And the Mustang was the worst. Where have you been?

Edit: Oh, wait......Sarcasm for you numbskulls.

[FOZ_1983]

The IL2 was a great ground attack aircraft so armour was usually needed. So giving them plenty of armour.... but they were fodder for fighters, hence the rear gunner.

Im in agreement with some of the things here, such as it does seem a bit hard to destroy, but i think to myslef that maybe because itd ground attack hen i'll just switch to a different target and save my ammo, BUT the rear gunner is ridiculous. He was armed with a pea shooter that did over heat!! yet in the game it doesn't. ALSO.... has anyone noticed the ammo capacity when playing with limited ammo? (ammo capacity for rear gunner?)

i find the stuka to be similar. Far to well armoured and not as easy to take down as it should be.

[beaker126]

[QUOTE=Lexandro;105713]NOW I believe you have hit the crux of the issue here, namely no overheat on turret guns. The planes damage model I believe is correct and fine, but this point that you now raise does indeed constitute an issue with the aircraft.

So the point is rather more simpler now, if these guns DID overheat wouldnt that be a much more balanced aspect of the combat? And would this alone alieviate the difficulty that some people have when fighting them?[/QUOTE

I've mentioned this a time or two as well, the turret guns should have some limiter on the like a planes main guns. Especially when you consider in real life, some planes had ammo boxes for the guns that held only 100-250 rounds. That's not a lot of firing time. The flex guns on German planes were particularly bad about this, holding only 75 rounds. I'm really hoping for a patch. But the best defense is still don't stay on a bombers ass for more than a second or two.