Spit IIA Speed in game test

[Kurfürst]

Originally Posted by Robo.

You might be wrong though... +9 without BCC-O. What happened if you used boost override in a Mk.II? +12lbs. happened. Was it used? Yes indeed.

Yes, I might be. Thing is though we do not know how the Mk. II engine controls were set up in 1940. The throttle lever is just, a lever giving any kind of boost it is set to give.

How did the Boost cut-out worked on the Mk. II? Was it the original boost cut-out (override for fully manual boost control in case of failure), was it giving +9 or +12?

We know the take off gate gave +12 but it fell of quickly and was basically only good for take off or very, very low altitudes. This should be definietely modelled.

The summer 1940 Mark II manual gives the maximum combat boost as +9. It does not list anything else, like the Mk I manual listing (+12) with the boost cut-out. The later, amended (1941?) Mark II manual gives the maximum combat boost as +7 (+12). This may point to that the throttle was setup to give +7 normal, and (+12) with the BCC-O.

Personally, I think the summer 1940 setup may well gave similar boost, with +7 w/o the cutout and +9 with the BCC-O.

It does not make sense because if Mk.III has been modified to be able to withstand higher pressures and +12lbs. has been authorised and widely used, the Merlin XII was basically next step of these original modifications + some other things that helped with durability and cooling etc. It was certainly capable to withstand the +12 boost which has been also authorised AND used in real life. +9 for Merlin XII was what was +6.25 for Merlin III.

Maybe, but we need solid evidence for that. We do not have it in the moment. On the other hand, it begs the question why the summer 1940 (unamended) spitfire II manual only gives +12 for take off, but does not clear it for normal flight (giving +9 for that without any higher figures in paranthesis).

Anyway, how important is this issue? There were marginal numbers of Mk II in the Battle. One Squadron in the summer, three in September, a couple more by November. Essentially the same numbers as 109E-x/N types, which we do not have modelled yet. 110C-x/Ns are also missing. But the developers need to take priorities, fixing the engine and existing FM is way more important IMHO than adding new planes.

I see, I do remember you from Il-2. I was wondering about Cliffs of Dover as I've never seen you flying anywhere. There is nothing wrong with that, I understand your reasons. The thing is although you're trying to help and perhaps to create some balance so the arguments would not become biased on the RAF for example... But you sort of miss the touch with the acual sim reality, in my opinion of course. That's why you probably don't see how ridiculously big and unrealistic the gap between the FMs is at the moment and the sheer frustration of anyone who tries to fly for the RAF. Even the LW guys see there is no fun in it now. It would be okay if that would be what it was during the actual Battle of Britain. But it was not.

FM is broken all the way around. 109Es were too slow, they have ridiculus stalling, 110s had too low dive limits, they miss Mine shells, 601N powered versions, Spit IIs were too good, then nerfed too bad, now hopefully correct, both Spitfires and probably 109s roll way too well at high speed, radiator drag was missing, 100 octane versions missing on both sides, German bomb sights are broken and so on. I am very doubtful that the FM bugs are biased towards any side, its broken all over the place. I get their frustration, recent FM changes were not kind. But they also need to come to terms with the fact that Blue has the 109s, and its excellent machine which held most of the aces up its sleeve even historically. Speed, firepower, good handling. They capitalize on that well. Sorry to say that, Red pilots were always the more whiney bunch, if you were too back with Il-2 you know that yourself.. and Il-2 history is so full of Red whining for new aircraft.

The real problem of Red side is that they are trying to master dozens of different types and the relevant tactics, and somehow always put their hope in the addition of more powerful aircraft, some of them were really really atypical (Mustang IIIs, 1944 Spit +25s - eh, two Sqns on operational trials IRL). There was whining about adding the P-40 and high hopes were placed that it will squash the 109F. It did not. Same thing with adding the P-47, and then the horror when they realized that 7-ton aircraft don't turn or climb too well. Then extreme hopes put in for the P-51, only to realize six brownings are not the same thing as a pack of 20mms, the plane itself is pretty avarage for climb and turn and that you have to learn capitlize on that its fast. In short, Blue players are bit weary of Red whining for the newest and "bestest" variants, and that Red often wants to have the highest performing variants and none of the also historical worser variants. How much whining have you seen for 100 octane Hurricanes, seriously? All they want is the best one, the 100 octane Spits, and I believe the reasoning behind is all too obvious - everybody knows new Hurris won't change a thing. And yes, I do see need to balance some noisy Red's rather selective offering of evidence. You will not find me knocking heads with IvanK or 41 Banks and there's a reason to that - they do not reach further than what their evidence is actually good for. I can, did and will support any Red suggestion that is underline with evidence. If someone posts some hard evidence that +12 was cleared for combat Spitfire II during BoB, I will change my position right away.

Red's real problem is that Blue side only flew the 109 all that time, and become so familiar with it, that it is operated at maximum efficiency and with deadly results. No new plane addition will make up for that. When +12 lbs Spits will be added, it will be a match for performance, but it won't make up for well developed and perfected tactics and routine. And seriously, anyone who expects the Hurris to be competitive against well flown 109s is kidding himself. Experienced Blue won't go on the deck and turn with you, it will employ team tactics and hit-and-run attacks, where only speed matters, even in maneuvering fights.