Desireable level of realism in a comabt flightsim?

[Blackdog_kt]

I would edit the previous post and add to it, but i'm afraid i'd go over the character limit

Anyway...

Originally Posted by ElAurens

I must agree totally with csThor.

I don't want a WW2 aircraft procedures training sim, which is what some here are really proposing, even if they don't know that they are.

I want to be able to "fly" any number of virtual aircraft, and enjoy the experience, not be saddled to one type by virtue of the fact that learning to operate it is so time consuming and complex that one is all you could ever learn well, as in real life.

And let's be realistic here. If aircraft for SOW were modeled to the degree that some propose, we would only have one flyable for each side.

And a dead sim, as it would not sell in the numbers needed to keep it alive.

I would agree with you if we were moving from a totally simplified model to an utterly complicated one. However, there pretty much is a lot of procedure in IL2. To top it off, a lot of it happens during combat, can be perfectly managed by most people and doesn't even need the clickable cockpits that people generally dislike.

Where it goes wrong is that a lot of these procedures or techniques are contrary to the real world operation of an aircraft or are reversed between aircraft, for example "manual" flying aircraft sometimes need less management than automated ones to perform at their best.


Case in point, boom and zoom in an FW190 that is supposed to be fully automatic. First of all, since everyone abuses the engine model by increasing throttle above the redline and keeping it there, while lowering pitch and periodically opening rads to reset the overheat timer, your first step is to do the same. It seems that overheat is primarily a function of RPM and not so much of boost/manifold pressure/ata values while i have a suspicion that it should it be a bit of both. Furthermore, while there is overheating of some sorts, there is no real effect from overcooling.

So, it goes something like this if you want to boom and zoom in an Anton and regain most of your initial altitude after the attack:

1) Disable auto prop pitch, go to 100% throttle+WEP with 80% pitch for level flight. This is how you cruise for the entire sortie, on war emergency power and closed rads.

2) As you dive towards the target and surpass 600km/h IAS, start reducing pitch by 10% for every extra 100km/h but don't go below 50% pitch. Also, open rads fully to super-cool the engine for the climb back up to altitude.

3) Attack target, make your firing pass.

4) Pulling up, go to 110%+WEP and 80-90% pitch. Don't go to 100% pitch because the prop disc acts like a brake at that setting if you're doing high speeds. Usually, the best manual setting for climbs is 90% pitch so as soon as your speed drops below 600-700kmh switch from 80% to 90% pitch. As you near the top of the climb and you need to recover or stall, go to 100% pitch. You should be overheating at this point or be very close to it.

5) Levelling off, keep your pitch to 100% until you reach 300-320kmh, reduce to 90% as you hit 350km/h and go to 80% at about 370-400km/h. At this point you should be slightly nose down and accelerating past 400km/h and to your maximum speed. Open rads fully and drop throttle to 100% to reset the overheat timer. If needed, momentarily drop throttle below 50% or even to idle to cool the engine fast. Rinse and repeat as needed.


Now this is how it works in IL2. What would go wrong in reality however?

1) You would overheat and if you kept at it your engine would seize, as the oil breaks down above a certain temp and can't provide sufficient lubrication.

2) Assuming you got past that, the combination of open radiators and greatly increased airflow due to the higher speeds in the dive would result in rapid cooling of a schorching hot engine. At best it would choke and seize before a whole lot of damage was done and with some luck you would be able to restart it. At this point you're effectively out of the fight and pretty much a sitting duck for anyone that saw what happened.
At worst, you could break anything from push rods and valves or even cause cracks or even chunks to fly off of entire cylinder heads, as the overheated metal (metal gets weaker when hot) is forced to contract rapidly through excessive cooling. In short, shock cooling.

3) Nothing, you just fire your guns at this point.

4) Assuming all the previous bad things didn't happen by some sort of divine intervention, we would have the opposite effect. The engine parts go from super-cool to super-hot in a matter of seconds with pretty much similar effects, plus the added result of overheating on the oil system as mentioned in the first point. Also, see below.

5) During the entire process of zooming back up, leveling off and attaining high speed again, the pitch settings used drive the RPM a good deal higher than the maximum tolerance of the particular engine. With all the other stuff that has happened before, if we're lucky enough to have gotten so far we could even be dealing with a runaway prop at this time. Even if that didn't happen, the sudden power reduction to cool the engine would again result in shock cooling.

So, i think that most people would be able to manage it if they fly mid to late war energy fighters. The US birds are much easier than they should be on the matter of engine tricks, but their weaker armament makes convergence and trim an absolute necessity, so the guys flying those mess less with their engines but much more with their trim during the attack. All in all, the workload is definitely not light as it is, it's just different.

Not only that, but since we already have to deal with a bunch of keypresses and don't need clickpits or fancy hardware to do it (MS sidewinder precision pro and TrackIR for me, no pedals and no HOTAS yet, plus i used to do all this with a hat-switch as well before i got a TrackIR), why not make it in a way that actually conforms to reality?